From jason.c.miller at gmail.com Wed Mar 1 08:43:15 2006 From: jason.c.miller at gmail.com (Jason C. Miller) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:43:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness Message-ID: I've asked a buffering question on here before and have now run into a similar-yet-different issue and was wondering if anyone had any insight. Here's the short story... At the command line (bash) ... ----------------------------------- (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) | \ perl -e 'while () { print }' ----------------------------------- ... works fine. All it does is print the stdout from the tar extraction. However, once inserted into a script, the exact same string of commands will be block-buffered instead of line-buffered (ie. prints output in chunks). Granted, this isn't unheard of. This is particularly annoying because the stdin is being used as input for another program (Xdialog). The oddness is that, inside the script ... ----------------------------------- (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) ----------------------------------- ... will line-buffer just fine. It's when I try to pipe that into anything else AFTER that the buffering issues come up. I've tried it with both perl and awk and they both do the same thing. I tried forcing the flush in the perl, but that doesn't do anything and I really don't know if that's the issue or not. Any ideas? -jason From Mark.Allbritten at grace.com Wed Mar 1 09:03:46 2006 From: Mark.Allbritten at grace.com (Allbritten, Mark) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:03:46 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness Message-ID: Hi Jason, Perl is taking standard in as one chunk. I believe you need to use a while readline loop... But if that's all your using perl for it would be easier to do something like: while read X ^Jdo^Jecho $X^Jdone I don't have a perl while readline snippet handy..... Best Regards, Mark -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces at calug.com [mailto:lug-bounces at calug.com]On Behalf Of Jason C. Miller Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:43 AM To: lug at calug.com Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness I've asked a buffering question on here before and have now run into a similar-yet-different issue and was wondering if anyone had any insight. Here's the short story... At the command line (bash) ... ----------------------------------- (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) | \ perl -e 'while () { print }' ----------------------------------- ... works fine. All it does is print the stdout from the tar extraction. However, once inserted into a script, the exact same string of commands will be block-buffered instead of line-buffered (ie. prints output in chunks). Granted, this isn't unheard of. This is particularly annoying because the stdin is being used as input for another program (Xdialog). The oddness is that, inside the script ... ----------------------------------- (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) ----------------------------------- ... will line-buffer just fine. It's when I try to pipe that into anything else AFTER that the buffering issues come up. I've tried it with both perl and awk and they both do the same thing. I tried forcing the flush in the perl, but that doesn't do anything and I really don't know if that's the issue or not. Any ideas? -jason _______________________________________________ Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com Email postings to: lug at calug.com Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug From jason.c.miller at gmail.com Wed Mar 1 10:17:01 2006 From: jason.c.miller at gmail.com (Jason C. Miller) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:17:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well....if I do ... --------------------------------- (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) --------------------------------- ... stdout from the tar extraction works just fine. Even if I try to pipe that output into 'grep', it'll still buffer everthing in chunks and I'm really perplexed as to why that is. The output comes out of tar just fine, but it seems that something happens to only allow it to be passed in chunks into the next command. Really weird. And, for all those who are curious, I've done all the usual stdout/stderr redirection testing. On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Allbritten, Mark wrote: > Hi Jason, > Perl is taking standard in as one chunk. I believe you need to use a while readline loop... But if that's all your using perl for it would be easier to do something like: > while read X ^Jdo^Jecho $X^Jdone > I don't have a perl while readline snippet handy..... > Best Regards, > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-bounces at calug.com [mailto:lug-bounces at calug.com]On Behalf Of Jason C. Miller > Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:43 AM > To: lug at calug.com > Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness > > I've asked a buffering question on here before and have now run into a > similar-yet-different issue and was wondering if anyone had any insight. > > Here's the short story... > > > At the command line (bash) ... > ----------------------------------- > (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) | \ > perl -e 'while () { print }' > ----------------------------------- > ... works fine. All it does is print the stdout from the tar extraction. > > > However, once inserted into a script, the exact same string of commands > will be block-buffered instead of line-buffered (ie. prints output in > chunks). Granted, this isn't unheard of. This is particularly annoying > because the stdin is being used as input for another program (Xdialog). > > > The oddness is that, inside the script ... > ----------------------------------- > (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) > ----------------------------------- > ... will line-buffer just fine. It's when I try to pipe that into > anything else AFTER that the buffering issues come up. I've tried it with > both perl and awk and they both do the same thing. I tried forcing the > flush in the perl, but that doesn't do anything and I really don't know if > that's the issue or not. > > > Any ideas? > > -jason > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- *************************************************** My blog: http://millersplace.blogspot.com/ *************************************************** From eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com Wed Mar 1 10:58:25 2006 From: eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com (Eric Gosnell) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:58:25 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops Message-ID: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. (I will dual boot so I can still have Windows based games, Visual Studio, etc.) Are some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for their hardware? What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for laptop support than others? (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux administration. I am a developer and I use it frequently at work. This is my attempt to force myself to become more adept at it.) Thanks, Eric -- Eric N. Gosnell Embedded Systems Design, Inc. 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 Elkridge, MD 21075 410-712-7290 (voice) 410-712-7291 (fax) eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com Voice Mail ext. 223 From ladynikon at gmail.com Wed Mar 1 13:43:57 2006 From: ladynikon at gmail.com (Danyelle Gragsone) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:43:57 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> Message-ID: <59f9c5160603011143q1f7d19f0k38ccc35c7c0c0100@mail.gmail.com> Usually your older laptops will be more supported than your newer ones. I have a gateway 450sx4 and ubuntu and gentoo ran fine on it. I have it dualbooted with windows/ubuntu currently. On 3/1/06, Eric Gosnell wrote: > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. (I will > dual boot so I can still have Windows based games, Visual Studio, etc.) Are > some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for their hardware? > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for laptop > support than others? > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux administration. I am a > developer and I use it frequently at work. This is my attempt to force myself > to become more adept at it.) > > Thanks, > Eric > > -- > Eric N. Gosnell > Embedded Systems Design, Inc. > 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 > Elkridge, MD 21075 > 410-712-7290 (voice) > 410-712-7291 (fax) > > eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > Voice Mail ext. 223 > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > From ladynikon at gmail.com Wed Mar 1 14:44:17 2006 From: ladynikon at gmail.com (Danyelle Gragsone) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:44:17 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <1ad34df30603011201n9a850fbr73e32089e3330a23@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <59f9c5160603011143q1f7d19f0k38ccc35c7c0c0100@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011200s6c4598ebkebfd516475074986@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011201n9a850fbr73e32089e3330a23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <59f9c5160603011244v7d7c06deh1bf6fe84937efd48@mail.gmail.com> yea, have fun setting up your wirless :-) i took me about 8 hours to get > my ndiswrapper working correctly It really depends on the card and finding the correct driver. Only took me 5mins with my broadcom g card. On 3/1/06, william kelly wrote: > that was on a toshiba a4 > > > On 3/1/06, william kelly wrote: > > > > yea, have fun setting up your wirless :-) i took me about 8 hours to get > my ndiswrapper working correctly > > > > > > > > On 3/1/06, Danyelle Gragsone < ladynikon at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Usually your older laptops will be more supported than your newer > > > ones. I have a gateway 450sx4 and ubuntu and gentoo ran fine on it. > > > I have it dualbooted with windows/ubuntu currently. > > > > > > On 3/1/06, Eric Gosnell < eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > wrote: > > > > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. > (I will > > > > dual boot so I can still have Windows based games, Visual Studio, > etc.) Are > > > > some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for their > hardware? > > > > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for > laptop > > > > support than others? > > > > > > > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux administration. I > am a > > > > developer and I use it frequently at work. This is my attempt to > force myself > > > > to become more adept at it.) > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Eric N. Gosnell > > > > Embedded Systems Design, Inc. > > > > 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 > > > > Elkridge, MD 21075 > > > > 410-712-7290 (voice) > > > > 410-712-7291 (fax) > > > > > > > > eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > > > > Voice Mail ext. 223 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > > > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > > > > From rradzville at gmail.com Wed Mar 1 14:49:51 2006 From: rradzville at gmail.com (Rick Radzville) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:49:51 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <59f9c5160603011244v7d7c06deh1bf6fe84937efd48@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <59f9c5160603011143q1f7d19f0k38ccc35c7c0c0100@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011200s6c4598ebkebfd516475074986@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011201n9a850fbr73e32089e3330a23@mail.gmail.com> <59f9c5160603011244v7d7c06deh1bf6fe84937efd48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9dda836c0603011249k7a7c4145k4c694d1164300a23@mail.gmail.com> I advise against Dell. I have an Inspiron 1100 that I set up to dual boot, XP Pro & Red Hat 9, before I found out I couldn't get a Linux driver for the NIC. :( I've had a GREAT experience w/Panasonic Toughbooks, esp. the CF-51 & the CF-18. I installed Ubuntu 5.9 or 5.10 on the CF-18 and "everything just worked", including the onboard wireless NIC. And it currently tripleboots between XP Tablet, 2003 Enterprise, and FreeBSD 6.0.2. I definitely recommend it. Rick On 3/1/06, Danyelle Gragsone wrote: > > yea, have fun setting up your wirless :-) i took me about 8 hours to get > > my ndiswrapper working correctly > > It really depends on the card and finding the correct driver. Only > took me 5mins with my broadcom g card. > > On 3/1/06, william kelly wrote: > > that was on a toshiba a4 > > > > > > On 3/1/06, william kelly wrote: > > > > > > yea, have fun setting up your wirless :-) i took me about 8 hours to > get > > my ndiswrapper working correctly > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/1/06, Danyelle Gragsone < ladynikon at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Usually your older laptops will be more supported than your newer > > > > ones. I have a gateway 450sx4 and ubuntu and gentoo ran fine on it. > > > > I have it dualbooted with windows/ubuntu currently. > > > > > > > > On 3/1/06, Eric Gosnell < eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > wrote: > > > > > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary > OS. > > (I will > > > > > dual boot so I can still have Windows based games, Visual Studio, > > etc.) Are > > > > > some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for > their > > hardware? > > > > > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for > > laptop > > > > > support than others? > > > > > > > > > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux > administration. I > > am a > > > > > developer and I use it frequently at work. This is my attempt to > > force myself > > > > > to become more adept at it.) > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Eric N. Gosnell > > > > > Embedded Systems Design, Inc. > > > > > 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 > > > > > Elkridge, MD 21075 > > > > > 410-712-7290 (voice) > > > > > 410-712-7291 (fax) > > > > > > > > > > eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > > > > > Voice Mail ext. 223 > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > > > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > > > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > > > > Change your list subscription options: > > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > > > Change your list subscription options: > > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060301/286fd5cb/attachment.html From strredwolf at gmail.com Wed Mar 1 14:53:14 2006 From: strredwolf at gmail.com (Kelly Price) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:53:14 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> Message-ID: <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> On 3/1/06, Eric Gosnell wrote: > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. (I will > dual boot so I can still have Windows based games, Visual Studio, etc.) Are > some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for their hardware? > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for laptop > support than others? > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux administration. I am a > developer and I use it frequently at work. This is my attempt to force myself > to become more adept at it.) > The older is good, but be careful. If you want games on it, look for a NVidia based video system in it (ATI sucks in Linux). Avoid any Broadcom card (DLink, some Linksys). Intel 2100 and RaLink based cards are very good wireless cards. > Thanks, > Eric > > -- > Eric N. Gosnell > Embedded Systems Design, Inc. > 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 > Elkridge, MD 21075 > 410-712-7290 (voice) > 410-712-7291 (fax) > > eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > Voice Mail ext. 223 > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price http://strredwolf.furrynet.com From strredwolf at gmail.com Wed Mar 1 15:12:41 2006 From: strredwolf at gmail.com (Kelly Price) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:12:41 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> I doubt it. On 3/1/06, william kelly wrote: > Does the lug meet any times other than weds? > > > On 3/1/06, Kelly Price wrote: > > On 3/1/06, Eric Gosnell wrote: > > > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. > (I will > > > dual boot so I can still have Windows based games, Visual Studio, etc.) > Are > > > some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for their > hardware? > > > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for > laptop > > > support than others? > > > > > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux administration. I am > a > > > developer and I use it frequently at work. This is my attempt to force > myself > > > to become more adept at it.) > > > > > > > The older is good, but be careful. If you want games on it, look for > > a NVidia based video system in it (ATI sucks in Linux). Avoid any > > Broadcom card (DLink, some Linksys). Intel 2100 and RaLink based > > cards are very good wireless cards. > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Eric > > > > > > -- > > > Eric N. Gosnell > > > Embedded Systems Design, Inc. > > > 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 > > > Elkridge, MD 21075 > > > 410-712-7290 (voice) > > > 410-712-7291 (fax) > > > > > > eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > > > Voice Mail ext. 223 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > > > > -- > > Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price > > http://strredwolf.furrynet.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > -- Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price http://strredwolf.furrynet.com From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Wed Mar 1 15:26:32 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:26:32 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44061188.7040606@Comcast.NET> Your problem may be with tar itself. Tar may be looking to see whether or not your stdin/stdout/stderr is a terminal and doing different things. Your perl script looks OK, but try using cat instead, or pipe to "cat -n > /tmp/$$" and see if you get your output numbered. In fact, the script itself may have no stdout defined! This is the most likely explanation if your script is being run by an X program. I do have a few suggestions for you, however. First, any shell script (including ones inside parens, as you have) should probably use "exec" on the last command. This replaces the two shells with tar instead of keeping them around. Second, the shells themself are unnecessay, as tar has a "-C /dir" set of arguments. Try: tar cf - . -C /blah | tar xf - -C /blah2 or even better, use "rsync -a /blah/. /blah2/." Note that rsync is picky about whether you end your paths with slashes or not. However, until you understand the rules, it's just easier to add the trailing dots, knoing that however the rules are applied, What You Expect will happen. JIM Jason C. Miller wrote: > I've asked a buffering question on here before and have now run into a > similar-yet-different issue and was wondering if anyone had any insight. > > Here's the short story... > > > At the command line (bash) ... > ----------------------------------- > (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) | \ > perl -e 'while () { print }' > ----------------------------------- > ... works fine. All it does is print the stdout from the tar extraction. > > > However, once inserted into a script, the exact same string of commands > will be block-buffered instead of line-buffered (ie. prints output in > chunks). Granted, this isn't unheard of. This is particularly annoying > because the stdin is being used as input for another program (Xdialog). > > > The oddness is that, inside the script ... > ----------------------------------- > (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) > ----------------------------------- > ... will line-buffer just fine. It's when I try to pipe that into > anything else AFTER that the buffering issues come up. I've tried it with > both perl and awk and they both do the same thing. I tried forcing the > flush in the perl, but that doesn't do anything and I really don't know if > that's the issue or not. > > > Any ideas? > > -jason > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > From Mark.Allbritten at grace.com Wed Mar 1 10:40:38 2006 From: Mark.Allbritten at grace.com (Allbritten, Mark) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:40:38 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness Message-ID: Hi Jason, I've run into this several times with other apps outputs. I am using HP-UX at the moment and I can't recreate your problem. I am fairly confident if you just add the following it should work: tar xvf /tmp/log 2>&1| while read X do echo $X (grep, ll, awk, etc) done Best Regards, Mark -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces at calug.com [mailto:lug-bounces at calug.com]On Behalf Of Jason C. Miller Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 11:17 AM To: Allbritten, Mark Cc: lug at calug.com Subject: Re: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness Well....if I do ... --------------------------------- (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) --------------------------------- ... stdout from the tar extraction works just fine. Even if I try to pipe that output into 'grep', it'll still buffer everthing in chunks and I'm really perplexed as to why that is. The output comes out of tar just fine, but it seems that something happens to only allow it to be passed in chunks into the next command. Really weird. And, for all those who are curious, I've done all the usual stdout/stderr redirection testing. On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Allbritten, Mark wrote: > Hi Jason, > Perl is taking standard in as one chunk. I believe you need to use a while readline loop... But if that's all your using perl for it would be easier to do something like: > while read X ^Jdo^Jecho $X^Jdone > I don't have a perl while readline snippet handy..... > Best Regards, > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-bounces at calug.com [mailto:lug-bounces at calug.com]On Behalf Of Jason C. Miller > Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:43 AM > To: lug at calug.com > Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness > > I've asked a buffering question on here before and have now run into a > similar-yet-different issue and was wondering if anyone had any insight. > > Here's the short story... > > > At the command line (bash) ... > ----------------------------------- > (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) | \ > perl -e 'while () { print }' > ----------------------------------- > ... works fine. All it does is print the stdout from the tar extraction. > > > However, once inserted into a script, the exact same string of commands > will be block-buffered instead of line-buffered (ie. prints output in > chunks). Granted, this isn't unheard of. This is particularly annoying > because the stdin is being used as input for another program (Xdialog). > > > The oddness is that, inside the script ... > ----------------------------------- > (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) > ----------------------------------- > ... will line-buffer just fine. It's when I try to pipe that into > anything else AFTER that the buffering issues come up. I've tried it with > both perl and awk and they both do the same thing. I tried forcing the > flush in the perl, but that doesn't do anything and I really don't know if > that's the issue or not. > > > Any ideas? > > -jason > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- *************************************************** My blog: http://millersplace.blogspot.com/ *************************************************** _______________________________________________ Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com Email postings to: lug at calug.com Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug From opn.src.rocks at gmail.com Wed Mar 1 16:52:43 2006 From: opn.src.rocks at gmail.com (Rajiv Gunja) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:52:43 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] IT Management - In-Reply-To: <20060301020625.92362F784D@scotty.dorkzilla.org> References: <20060301020625.92362F784D@scotty.dorkzilla.org> Message-ID: Carlos, You need PMP / PMI materials for this. One book I have read is "Information Technology Project Management" - Kathy Schwalbe. Websites: google "project management", www.pmi.org. PMI not only gives you about the things you are looking for, but the whole standards for Project Management. So you can use it not only for IT, but for non-IT or even non-tech projects. I took a course from Boston University and there are many institutes which offer these. -GGR --- Rajiv G Gunja System Analyst / Engg SUN / AIX / HPUX / Linux Admin IM: AOL / Yahoo / MSN : ggvrsn On 2/28/06, carlos astrada wrote: > > > > Do any of you have good resources related to managing IT teams? The > information I need would include: making estimates, managing projects, > outsourcing, etc. A site, book, or any combination of resources would be > fine. I am interested in learning more about the business side of the dev. > process. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Carlos > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060228/9c83fa15/attachment.html > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060301/f2710502/attachment.html From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Wed Mar 1 17:48:32 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:48:32 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> Message-ID: <440632D0.2020908@Comcast.NET> After much frustrating research looking thru various webpages (they all seem to be outdated) I decided to buy a Linksys "Gaming Router". It is designed to connect an Xbox via wireless. I though to myself...."hmmm, an Xbox is also a computer, just like my PC. It has a wireless card and an ethernet jack in it. A bit unwieldy, but works nicely. It has a DHCP server in it and a web based configuration, just like one of their routers. It's also a bit pricey (near $100), but how much is your time worth? JIM Eric Gosnell wrote: > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. (I will > dual boot so I can still have Windows based games, Visual Studio, etc.) Are > some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for their hardware? > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for laptop > support than others? > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux administration. I am a > developer and I use it frequently at work. This is my attempt to force myself > to become more adept at it.) > > Thanks, > Eric > From jce at zot.com Wed Mar 1 20:21:28 2006 From: jce at zot.com (Chris Edillon) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:21:28 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1141266088.9191.15.camel@ruthless> On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 09:43 -0500, Jason C. Miller wrote: > I've asked a buffering question on here before and have now run into a > similar-yet-different issue and was wondering if anyone had any insight. > > Here's the short story... > > > At the command line (bash) ... > ----------------------------------- > (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) | \ > perl -e 'while () { print }' > ----------------------------------- > ... works fine. All it does is print the stdout from the tar extraction. > perhaps i'm missing something, but why pipe the output to perl? it's already printing to stdout. > The oddness is that, inside the script ... > ----------------------------------- > (cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) > ----------------------------------- > ... will line-buffer just fine. It's when I try to pipe that into > anything else AFTER that the buffering issues come up. I've tried it with > both perl and awk and they both do the same thing. I tried forcing the > flush in the perl, but that doesn't do anything and I really don't know if > that's the issue or not. > like mark, i can't recreate this either. i wrote this little snippit and it doesn't seem to buffer the output (with or without the perl bit): #!/bin/sh tar -cvf - /usr/share/doc/* 2>/dev/null | (cd /tmp/test && tar -xvf - 2>/tmp/testlog) | perl -pe '' if this is input for Xdialog, perhaps it is buffering before printing anything? chris From jason.c.miller at gmail.com Wed Mar 1 20:39:22 2006 From: jason.c.miller at gmail.com (Jason C. Miller) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:39:22 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness In-Reply-To: <1141266088.9191.15.camel@ruthless> References: <1141266088.9191.15.camel@ruthless> Message-ID: <44065ADA.4040400@gmail.com> Arg. Alright....some more details. :) 1. It is a Solaris 8 machine 2. My code is not as simple as a single perl print() statement. That was simply there to provide a simple example that doesn't work on my system. It works fine at the command prompt but not from a script (which, after more reading, I understand a lot more about how programs see what devices STDOUT is attached to and how they act accordingly). 3. As mentioned, it doesn't matter what command (perl, awk, sed, grep, etc) comes after that next pipe. All the STDIN for those programs are block-buffered. Anyhoo. Yet another day in paradise. :) Chris Edillon wrote: >On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 09:43 -0500, Jason C. Miller wrote: > > > >>I've asked a buffering question on here before and have now run into a >>similar-yet-different issue and was wondering if anyone had any insight. >> >>Here's the short story... >> >> >>At the command line (bash) ... >>----------------------------------- >>(cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) | \ >>perl -e 'while () { print }' >>----------------------------------- >>... works fine. All it does is print the stdout from the tar extraction. >> >> >> > perhaps i'm missing something, but why pipe the output >to perl? it's already printing to stdout. > > > >>The oddness is that, inside the script ... >>----------------------------------- >>(cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) >>----------------------------------- >>... will line-buffer just fine. It's when I try to pipe that into >>anything else AFTER that the buffering issues come up. I've tried it with >>both perl and awk and they both do the same thing. I tried forcing the >>flush in the perl, but that doesn't do anything and I really don't know if >>that's the issue or not. >> >> >> > like mark, i can't recreate this either. i wrote this little snippit >and it doesn't seem to buffer the output (with or without the perl bit): > >#!/bin/sh >tar -cvf - /usr/share/doc/* 2>/dev/null | (cd /tmp/test && tar -xvf - >2>/tmp/testlog) | perl -pe '' > >if this is input for Xdialog, perhaps it is buffering before >printing anything? > >chris > > > -- *************************************************** My blog: http://millersplace.blogspot.com/ *************************************************** From josiah.ritchie at gmail.com Wed Mar 1 17:05:37 2006 From: josiah.ritchie at gmail.com (Josiah Ritchie) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:05:37 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: http://www.emperorlinux.com/ sells notebooks with Linux already on them. I'd like to get my hands on the ThinkPad X41 they have all setup. It's pretty sweet. It even has the fingerprint scanner working which I think its pretty safe to say you won't find anywhere else. JSR/ From Christopher.Worsley at hp.com Wed Mar 1 17:56:32 2006 From: Christopher.Worsley at hp.com (Worsley, Christopher) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:56:32 -0600 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops Message-ID: <8CF337CB8C84E34497D4A5E0A649036907D47068@cceexc15.americas.cpqcorp.net> HP machines are fairly Linux friendly, including laptops and tablets. The official list of supported machines & distributions is here: http://www.hp.com/wwsolutions/linux/certifications.html. You'll notice that the list appeals to corporate users (hence the prominance of RHEL & Novell). In practice, you'll find that even more than those models listed enjoy support and most distributions work great. For instance, the machine I'm using now is a recent hp nc6000 laptop which runs Fedora Core 4 and Ubuntu Breezy Badger. By default, Ubuntu uses hostap drivers so the built-in Atheros WiFi chipset was recognized right away. > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:58:25 -0500 > From: Eric Gosnell > Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops > To: lug at calug.com > Message-ID: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c at www.embedded-sys.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. (I will dual boot so I can still have > Windows based games, Visual Studio, etc.) Are some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for > their hardware? > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for laptop support than others? > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux administration. I am a developer and I use it frequently > at work. This is my attempt to force myself to become more adept at it.) > > Thanks, > Eric From decepticon at gmail.com Thu Mar 2 14:32:07 2006 From: decepticon at gmail.com (jason maxwell) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:32:07 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <8CF337CB8C84E34497D4A5E0A649036907D47068@cceexc15.americas.cpqcorp.net> References: <8CF337CB8C84E34497D4A5E0A649036907D47068@cceexc15.americas.cpqcorp.net> Message-ID: i've got an IBM thinkpad T40, ive been using linux exclusively on it for a couple years now, with very few problems. it has an ATI vid card, which is a huge PITA to get stable performance from. i do not do any gaming on it. i tried a while ago and was able to play a couple games using the fglrx driver intended for the desktop model of my card, but it did crash pretty frequently. i havnt tried recently, since i'd rather play games on my desktop anyway. --Jason On 3/1/06, Worsley, Christopher wrote: > > HP machines are fairly Linux friendly, including laptops and tablets. > The official list of supported machines & distributions is here: > http://www.hp.com/wwsolutions/linux/certifications.html. You'll notice > that the list appeals to corporate users (hence the prominance of RHEL & > Novell). > > In practice, you'll find that even more than those models listed enjoy > support and most distributions work great. > > For instance, the machine I'm using now is a recent hp nc6000 laptop > which runs Fedora Core 4 and Ubuntu Breezy Badger. By default, Ubuntu > uses hostap drivers so the built-in Atheros WiFi chipset was recognized > right away. > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:58:25 -0500 > > From: Eric Gosnell > > Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops > > To: lug at calug.com > > Message-ID: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c at www.embedded-sys.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. > (I will dual boot so I can still have > > Windows based games, Visual Studio, etc.) Are some laptop > manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for > > their hardware? > > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for > laptop support than others? > > > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux administration. I > am a developer and I use it frequently > > at work. This is my attempt to force myself to become more adept at > it.) > > > > Thanks, > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > From Mark.Allbritten at grace.com Thu Mar 2 08:26:31 2006 From: Mark.Allbritten at grace.com (Allbritten, Mark) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:26:31 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Project Message-ID: Hi Russ, Dual booting is great, but depending on what your system looks like VmWare might be a better option. You could have all your systems running at once and they are giving away the GLX version (Windows Version).... http://www.vmware.com/products/gsx/ Best Regards, Mark -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces at calug.com [mailto:lug-bounces at calug.com]On Behalf Of Russ Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:00 AM To: Columbia Area Linux Users Group Subject: [CALUG] Project Hello all, I am a college student who is trying to find time to start a project building a dual boot computer. I have most of the components now. I want to dual boot Windows and Linux. Right now I have two drives at 160GB each, and planning on adding another for backups. I was thinking that wach one of the 160GB HD's should house each operating system separately. Would anyone sugest RAID instead, or should I keep the files sytems separate? Any advice will be appreciated, and if anyone needs hardware system details let me know. Russ Main _______________________________________________ Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com Email postings to: lug at calug.com Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug From Mark.Allbritten at grace.com Thu Mar 2 08:16:34 2006 From: Mark.Allbritten at grace.com (Allbritten, Mark) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:16:34 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness Message-ID: Hi Jason, I have a couple of different idea's then since we are talking perl. I've only encountered this a few times, but I do have some scripts that had to do system calls to process the data (proprietary app). I assume you've checked and there are no perl modules you can add or compile to do the task, right? Native perl modules are always cleaner. That assumption being made have you tried anything like below (it's a snippet from a script I use on an Samsung Contact system)? In this one, I pull the info into a file handle and then process and push to an array: open (FH, "/opt/openmail/bin/omlist -m|"); while (){ chomp (); ($MSGNumber,$MSGData)=split " ",$_,2; push (@MSGList, "$MSGNumber -- $MSGData\n"); } close (FH); Another method I like even less is (since you say it works from the command line) the following: system ("/opt/openmail/omlist -m >> /tmp/file"); open (FH, "/tmp/file"); while (){ chomp (); ($MSGNumber,$MSGData)=split " ",$_,2; push (@MSGList, "$MSGNumber -- $MSGData\n"); } close (FH); unlink ("/tmp/file"); Best Regards, Mark -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces at calug.com [mailto:lug-bounces at calug.com]On Behalf Of Jason C. Miller Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:39 PM To: Chris Edillon Cc: lug at calug.com Subject: Re: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness Arg. Alright....some more details. :) 1. It is a Solaris 8 machine 2. My code is not as simple as a single perl print() statement. That was simply there to provide a simple example that doesn't work on my system. It works fine at the command prompt but not from a script (which, after more reading, I understand a lot more about how programs see what devices STDOUT is attached to and how they act accordingly). 3. As mentioned, it doesn't matter what command (perl, awk, sed, grep, etc) comes after that next pipe. All the STDIN for those programs are block-buffered. Anyhoo. Yet another day in paradise. :) Chris Edillon wrote: >On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 09:43 -0500, Jason C. Miller wrote: > > > >>I've asked a buffering question on here before and have now run into a >>similar-yet-different issue and was wondering if anyone had any insight. >> >>Here's the short story... >> >> >>At the command line (bash) ... >>----------------------------------- >>(cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) | \ >>perl -e 'while () { print }' >>----------------------------------- >>... works fine. All it does is print the stdout from the tar extraction. >> >> >> > perhaps i'm missing something, but why pipe the output >to perl? it's already printing to stdout. > > > >>The oddness is that, inside the script ... >>----------------------------------- >>(cd /blah ; tar cvf - * 2>/dev/null) | (cd /blah2 ; tar xvf - 2>/tmp/log) >>----------------------------------- >>... will line-buffer just fine. It's when I try to pipe that into >>anything else AFTER that the buffering issues come up. I've tried it with >>both perl and awk and they both do the same thing. I tried forcing the >>flush in the perl, but that doesn't do anything and I really don't know if >>that's the issue or not. >> >> >> > like mark, i can't recreate this either. i wrote this little snippit >and it doesn't seem to buffer the output (with or without the perl bit): > >#!/bin/sh >tar -cvf - /usr/share/doc/* 2>/dev/null | (cd /tmp/test && tar -xvf - >2>/tmp/testlog) | perl -pe '' > >if this is input for Xdialog, perhaps it is buffering before >printing anything? > >chris > > > -- *************************************************** My blog: http://millersplace.blogspot.com/ *************************************************** _______________________________________________ Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com Email postings to: lug at calug.com Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug From opn.src.rocks at gmail.com Thu Mar 2 05:09:06 2006 From: opn.src.rocks at gmail.com (Rajiv Gunja) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:09:06 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <8CF337CB8C84E34497D4A5E0A649036907D47068@cceexc15.americas.cpqcorp.net> References: <8CF337CB8C84E34497D4A5E0A649036907D47068@cceexc15.americas.cpqcorp.net> Message-ID: I was always partial to these websites just before I bought my laptop. The 2nd website was a little pricy for me, but it is useful in comparing the hardware to other brands. Hope this helps. http://www.linux-laptop.net/ http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html -GGR --- Rajiv G Gunja System Analyst / Engg SUN / AIX / HPUX / Linux Admin IM: AOL / Yahoo / MSN : ggvrsn On 3/1/06, Worsley, Christopher wrote: > > > HP machines are fairly Linux friendly, including laptops and tablets. > The official list of supported machines & distributions is here: > http://www.hp.com/wwsolutions/linux/certifications.html. You'll notice > that the list appeals to corporate users (hence the prominance of RHEL & > Novell). > > In practice, you'll find that even more than those models listed enjoy > support and most distributions work great. > > For instance, the machine I'm using now is a recent hp nc6000 laptop > which runs Fedora Core 4 and Ubuntu Breezy Badger. By default, Ubuntu > uses hostap drivers so the built-in Atheros WiFi chipset was recognized > right away. > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:58:25 -0500 > > From: Eric Gosnell > > Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops > > To: lug at calug.com > > Message-ID: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c at www.embedded-sys.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. > (I will dual boot so I can still have > > Windows based games, Visual Studio, etc.) Are some laptop > manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for > > their hardware? > > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for > laptop support than others? > > > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux administration. I > am a developer and I use it frequently > > at work. This is my attempt to force myself to become more adept at > it.) > > > > Thanks, > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060302/b1c89f96/attachment.html From randysch at comcast.net Thu Mar 2 19:14:15 2006 From: randysch at comcast.net (Randy Schrickel) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:14:15 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> Message-ID: <44079867.5050008@comcast.net> Eric Gosnell wrote: > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. (I will > dual boot so I can still have Windows based games, Visual Studio, etc.) Are > some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for their hardware? > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for laptop > support than others? I've had my HP zt3000 laptop running some version of Linux for about 18 months. I don't think the machine is anything unusual - centrino for wireless, and an ATI graphics card. I've run Mepis, Gentoo, Fedora, Suse, and a couple other smaller distros on it. SUSE is the one I've stuck with (version 10.0), because it's the only one that properly configured everything right out of the box. Mepis did at first, but subsequent upgrades broke things. Some handled the wireless, some the audio, but SUSE is the only one that does both. I spent more than enough time trying to get the others to work, then I'd move on to something else. Your mileage may vary of course, but I'd keep SUSE on your list of distros to try. If a distro has a bootable CD that you can try on the laptop before you buy, that would be a real good thing to do. randy From dododge at dododge.net Fri Mar 3 04:15:14 2006 From: dododge at dododge.net (Dave Dodge) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:15:14 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] More I/O buffering foolishness In-Reply-To: <44065ADA.4040400@gmail.com> References: <1141266088.9191.15.camel@ruthless> <44065ADA.4040400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060303101514.GB14123@basmati> On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 09:39:22PM -0500, Jason C. Miller wrote: > 1. It is a Solaris 8 machine > (which, after more reading, I understand a lot more about how programs > see what devices STDOUT is attached to and how they act accordingly). Some programs check the input and output devices on their own, for example to determine if they should present a prompt to the user. But even if they don't check, the C library itself can (and probably does) make this check internally, and changes the default buffering for stdout under the hood. > 3. As mentioned, it doesn't matter what command (perl, awk, sed, grep, > etc) comes after that next pipe. All the STDIN for those programs are > block-buffered. Most likely what's happening is that as soon as you add the pipe, the C library sees a pipe instead of a terminal device, and changes tar's stdout to be block-buffered. If you "truss" the tar process and watch the write operations it's performing on descriptor 1, you'll probably see them change from being one-per-line to one-per-block when you add the pipe. If this is indeed the problem, then you have to do something like: - Change tar's behavior somehow. There's probably no command-line option to do this, so you're forced to either patch the code or perhaps use an LD_PRELOAD trick to slip a bit of your own code into tar nondestructively. Here's an example of the LD_PRELOAD technique on Linux; Solaris may be similar: http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2005/04/18/wrapping_command_line_programs_IV.html - Slip a pseudoterminal device between tar and the next command. This is messy and extremely unportable. I've done it before with "expect" and a script that poked around in the Linux "/proc" filesystem. Yuck. -Dave Dodge From gardner at networknow.org Thu Mar 2 07:30:11 2006 From: gardner at networknow.org (Gardner Pomper) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:30:11 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] SPAM-LOW: Re: Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42d22dbf0603020530o1956dc0au853ff7418ec4d07f@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am using an IBM T42, which supposedly can have linux on it, but I could never get the wireless to work. That said, I installed VMware Workstation ($150?) on it and run several linuxes now. Let windows handle the funky driver stuff and linux is great. Using VMware Workstation, you should be able to get pretty much any notebook you want, and also have the convenience of just doing new distro installs without disturbing what you already have working. On 3/1/06, Josiah Ritchie wrote: > > http://www.emperorlinux.com/ sells notebooks with Linux already on > them. I'd like to get my hands on the ThinkPad X41 they have all > setup. It's pretty sweet. It even has the fingerprint scanner working > which I think its pretty safe to say you won't find anywhere else. > > JSR/ > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060302/26e154b4/attachment.html From anderson.stephen at gmail.com Fri Mar 3 10:50:13 2006 From: anderson.stephen at gmail.com (Stephen Anderson) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:50:13 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> Message-ID: <3fef98d60603030850h1e6fb86cla3d0da63d2bb84cc@mail.gmail.com> http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/new.html I run Ubuntu on my Sony Vaio. Above URL lists a few links to info on various installs. swa On 3/1/06, Eric Gosnell wrote: > > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary OS. (I > will > dual boot so I can still have Windows based games, Visual Studio, > etc.) Are > some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux drivers for their > hardware? > What do you recommend? Second, are some distributions better for laptop > support than others? > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux administration. I am a > developer and I use it frequently at work. This is my attempt to force > myself > to become more adept at it.) > > Thanks, > Eric > > -- > Eric N. Gosnell > Embedded Systems Design, Inc. > 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 > Elkridge, MD 21075 > 410-712-7290 (voice) > 410-712-7291 (fax) > > eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > Voice Mail ext. 223 > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060303/68c3d8ff/attachment.html From gardner at networknow.org Fri Mar 3 11:42:42 2006 From: gardner at networknow.org (Gardner Pomper) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:42:42 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060303113905.qou7bz3pxzrk8o0c@www.embedded-sys.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> <42d22dbf0603020530o1956dc0au853ff7418ec4d07f@mail.gmail.com> <20060303113905.qou7bz3pxzrk8o0c@www.embedded-sys.com> Message-ID: <42d22dbf0603030942x3a4c7712ubd6c59a474141f96@mail.gmail.com> Hi, VMWare is a virtualization technology, similar to Xen and Microsoft's Virtual PC, but it has been around a lot longer and works much better. Basically, it "virtualizes" your hardware (NOT the cpu) so that you can run multiple OSs at the same time on your PC. A side benefit, that I have appreciated VERY much, is that it lets you run windows as the base (host) operating system where all the devices work (like your video card, wireless card, etc). When you install VMware, the "guest" operating systems see just a regular network adapter.. they don't even know it is a wireless card, so you don't have to install drivers for anything. I run XP as my host, and I have VM guests for Fedora 2, Fedora 4, Mandriva 10.1, Scyld, OpenMosix and a ClusterMatic enabled FC 4. I can run any one (or several) at one time. Running several can eat up your memory, so I have upgraded my laptop to 2GB and I can run at least 4 OSs simultaneously with no problem. If I decide that I want to use a different computer, I can just copy the VMware session over (5-10GB) and run it on a different PC. I am considering setting up a desktop with multiple video monitors (more than the 2 I have with my laptop) and using that when I am at home and the laptop when I am away. I'll just put the VMware sessions on an external 2.5" USB 2.0 HD and plug it into whichever computer I feel like. There are a few things that keep this from being perfect: 1) VMware doesn't support "odd" hardware, like TV tuners, etc. But it does support USB devices 2) It doesn't virtualize the CPU. that's good, because it runs fast, but its bad because my Pentium M in my laptop runs a different linux kernel than a Pentium 4 desktop, so to do what I said above with the desktop PC, I will have to have a Pentium M in that 3) We (another guy at IBM and I) have been unable to get gigabit throughput through the gigabit LAN adapter on any PC, so my network access is back down at about 100MB. 4) I expect (haven't tried games in the VMs) that the video performance would be degraded, but it is perfectly acceptable for regular X windows work. To sum up, if you want to dive into driver configuration and Myth TV and linux games, stay with a native linux install. Otherwise, put Windows XP on your laptop, install VMware and have as many different linux distros booted as you want to.I am using it as the head node on my development cluster at home. New news: I bought VMware workstation (list $199) because it was the cheapest. Their next one up, GSX was like $1000. But they have release the beta of GSX for free recently and rumor at least has it that it will stay free. I don't know if GSX has as much hardware support as Workstation, but you can give it a try. - Gardner Pomper P.S. I'd love to go to a UG meeting sometime. When and where are they? On 3/3/06, Eric Gosnell wrote: > > Thanks. > Please, tell me more about VMWare. I have heard people here post about it > before, but I don't know much about it. I never thought I would need it. > > Eric > > > Quoting Gardner Pomper : > > > Hi, > > > > I am using an IBM T42, which supposedly can have linux on it, but I > could > > never get the wireless to work. That said, I installed VMware > Workstation > > ($150?) on it and run several linuxes now. Let windows handle the funky > > driver stuff and linux is great. Using VMware Workstation, you should be > > able to get pretty much any notebook you want, and also have the > convenience > > of just doing new distro installs without disturbing what you already > have > > working. > > > > On 3/1/06, Josiah Ritchie wrote: > >> > >> http://www.emperorlinux.com/ sells notebooks with Linux already on > >> them. I'd like to get my hands on the ThinkPad X41 they have all > >> setup. It's pretty sweet. It even has the fingerprint scanner working > >> which I think its pretty safe to say you won't find anywhere else. > >> > >> JSR/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > >> CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > >> Email postings to: lug at calug.com > >> Change your list subscription options: > >> http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > >> > >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > > http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060302/26e154b4/attachment.html > > _______________________________________________ > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > -- > Eric N. Gosnell > Embedded Systems Design, Inc. > 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 > Elkridge, MD 21075 > 410-712-7290 (voice) > 410-712-7291 (fax) > > eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > Voice Mail ext. 223 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060303/ee496749/attachment.html From clinton at unknownlamer.org Fri Mar 3 12:45:07 2006 From: clinton at unknownlamer.org (Clinton Ebadi) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:45:07 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <42d22dbf0603030942x3a4c7712ubd6c59a474141f96@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> <42d22dbf0603020530o1956dc0au853ff7418ec4d07f@mail.gmail.com> <20060303113905.qou7bz3pxzrk8o0c@www.embedded-sys.com> <42d22dbf0603030942x3a4c7712ubd6c59a474141f96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1141411507.5080.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 12:42 -0500, Gardner Pomper wrote: > To sum up, if you want to dive into driver configuration and Myth TV and > linux games, stay with a native linux install. Otherwise, put Windows XP on > your laptop, install VMware and have as many different linux distros booted > as you want to.I am using it as the head node on my development cluster at > home. Using Windows is *not* cool. What is the point of running a Free system on top of a proprietary system? Proprietary software is a scourge. Responding to someone who asked for GNU/Linux friendly hardware with "use Windows and run it in VMWare" is not answering the question at all. The only thing you gain from using Windows and a GNU/Linux image in VMWare is a bunch of Windows AND GNU/Linux headaches. The problems that GNU/Linux has are far easier to deal with (setup is difficult, but you are set after that... [I haven't reinstalled Debian since potato, and the machine it is running on has had the hardware replaced twice]). -- http://unknownlamer.org AIM:unknownlamer IRC:unknown_lamer at fnode#tpu Jabber:clinton at hcoop.net I use Free Software because I value freedom over features. 443E 4F1A E213 7C54 A306 E328 7601 A1F0 F403 574B -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060303/3d0e8e1a/attachment.bin From gardner at networknow.org Fri Mar 3 13:24:02 2006 From: gardner at networknow.org (Gardner Pomper) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:24:02 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <1141411507.5080.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> <42d22dbf0603020530o1956dc0au853ff7418ec4d07f@mail.gmail.com> <20060303113905.qou7bz3pxzrk8o0c@www.embedded-sys.com> <42d22dbf0603030942x3a4c7712ubd6c59a474141f96@mail.gmail.com> <1141411507.5080.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <42d22dbf0603031124y73e500bdud1405f05831fdd33@mail.gmail.com> Hi, This wasn't meant to be a religious issue. He wants to experiment with Linux. This is the easiest way I have found to get it all working. I have done virtually all my work for the past 25 years in Unix and/or Linux. I recommend it for almost any server we come across. I fought for a year to get a Linux cluster installed at IBM instead of their proprietary AIX machines. So, don't go off on *cool* or not. This is about being productive. When linux gets to the point where it is actually as easy to configure as Windows, people will stop using windows. Until then, they vote with their wallets.. and windows is worth the money to save the hassle of trying to make your system boot up right. Linux is *far* more productive for programming (which is what I do). If you want to train as a sysadmin, then you have to beat your head against the wall until you can make linux work, but if you want to do actual work, pick the easy way. - Gardner On 3/3/06, Clinton Ebadi wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 12:42 -0500, Gardner Pomper wrote: > > To sum up, if you want to dive into driver configuration and Myth TV and > > linux games, stay with a native linux install. Otherwise, put Windows XP > on > > your laptop, install VMware and have as many different linux distros > booted > > as you want to.I am using it as the head node on my development cluster > at > > home. > > Using Windows is *not* cool. What is the point of running a Free system > on top of a proprietary system? > > Proprietary software is a scourge. Responding to someone who asked for > GNU/Linux friendly hardware with "use Windows and run it in VMWare" is > not answering the question at all. > > The only thing you gain from using Windows and a GNU/Linux image in > VMWare is a bunch of Windows AND GNU/Linux headaches. The problems that > GNU/Linux has are far easier to deal with (setup is difficult, but you > are set after that... [I haven't reinstalled Debian since potato, and > the machine it is running on has had the hardware replaced twice]). > -- > http://unknownlamer.org > AIM:unknownlamer IRC:unknown_lamer at fnode#tpu Jabber:clinton at hcoop.net > I use Free Software because I value freedom over features. > 443E 4F1A E213 7C54 A306 E328 7601 A1F0 F403 574B > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQBECI6ydgGh8PQDV0sRAgnsAJ0XEogqBmh+TButHnEiOCeth4TzMQCgvrqJ > s68S8U2TyxE4dXdYwKTgEO4= > =nAj1 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060303/4f76238a/attachment.html From eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com Fri Mar 3 14:14:16 2006 From: eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com (Eric Gosnell) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:14:16 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <1141411507.5080.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> <42d22dbf0603020530o1956dc0au853ff7418ec4d07f@mail.gmail.com> <20060303113905.qou7bz3pxzrk8o0c@www.embedded-sys.com> <42d22dbf0603030942x3a4c7712ubd6c59a474141f96@mail.gmail.com> <1141411507.5080.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060303151416.iznv0be7aw2s4k40@www.embedded-sys.com> It is my understanding that one of the best benefits of using VMWare is found when you are doing kernel development. It simplifies the boot reboot process. You can bounce/crash the kernel in much less time under VMWare. However, I have not tried it before. I will likely start with a pure Linux install so that I am forced to experiment with startup configurations, difficult driver installation (Such as my $10 wireless card that I cannot get to work with Linux), Kernel hacks, etc. By the way, rumor has it that Dell is offering a $250.00 rebate on laptops currently. Eric -- Eric N. Gosnell Embedded Systems Design, Inc. 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 Elkridge, MD 21075 410-712-7290 (voice) 410-712-7291 (fax) eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com Voice Mail ext. 223 From ladynikon at gmail.com Fri Mar 3 14:19:47 2006 From: ladynikon at gmail.com (Danyelle Gragsone) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:19:47 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060303151416.iznv0be7aw2s4k40@www.embedded-sys.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> <42d22dbf0603020530o1956dc0au853ff7418ec4d07f@mail.gmail.com> <20060303113905.qou7bz3pxzrk8o0c@www.embedded-sys.com> <42d22dbf0603030942x3a4c7712ubd6c59a474141f96@mail.gmail.com> <1141411507.5080.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060303151416.iznv0be7aw2s4k40@www.embedded-sys.com> Message-ID: <59f9c5160603031219g7b4be7fdr9e3976c8a9703933@mail.gmail.com> you want easy linux.. use ubuntu or suse ;) On 3/3/06, Eric Gosnell wrote: > It is my understanding that one of the best benefits of using VMWare is found > when you are doing kernel development. It simplifies the boot reboot > process. You can bounce/crash the kernel in much less time under > VMWare. However, I have > not tried it before. I will likely start with a pure Linux install so > that I am > forced to experiment with startup configurations, difficult driver > installation > (Such as my $10 wireless card that I cannot get to work with Linux), Kernel > hacks, etc. > > By the way, rumor has it that Dell is offering a $250.00 rebate on laptops > currently. > > Eric > > -- > Eric N. Gosnell > Embedded Systems Design, Inc. > 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 > Elkridge, MD 21075 > 410-712-7290 (voice) > 410-712-7291 (fax) > > eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > Voice Mail ext. 223 > > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > From jce at zot.com Fri Mar 3 23:06:25 2006 From: jce at zot.com (Chris Edillon) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:06:25 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <42d22dbf0603030942x3a4c7712ubd6c59a474141f96@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> <42d22dbf0603020530o1956dc0au853ff7418ec4d07f@mail.gmail.com> <20060303113905.qou7bz3pxzrk8o0c@www.embedded-sys.com> <42d22dbf0603030942x3a4c7712ubd6c59a474141f96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1141448785.26744.14.camel@ruthless> On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 12:42 -0500, Gardner Pomper wrote: > 3) We (another guy at IBM and I) have been unable to get gigabit throughput > through the gigabit LAN adapter on any PC, so my network access is back down > at about 100MB. are you using the default vlance driver? you should be able to get more than 100MB speeds using vmxnet. > 4) I expect (haven't tried games in the VMs) that the video performance > would be degraded, but it is perfectly acceptable for regular X windows > work. vmware workstation has included experimental support for directx since 4.x, but it's known to be buggy and the vmware folks have said they don't plan on more than experimental support for the near term. i did see a couple of vmware engineers playing max payne in a winxp VM on top of a linux host, which was pretty cool. for configuration details, see http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_vidsound_d3d.html > New news: I bought VMware workstation (list $199) because it was the > cheapest. Their next one up, GSX was like $1000. But they have release the > beta of GSX for free recently and rumor at least has it that it will stay > free. I don't know if GSX has as much hardware support as Workstation, but > you can give it a try. > vmware server (was called GSX) is free during the current beta period, and will remain free after it becomes generally available. they will sell support for it, though, as well as continue supporting current GSX customers for a few years. in general it should support the same hardware as workstation, although it may be a bit behind the current workstation version as VMware releases all of their new features in the workstation product first and the server products have to play catch-up. the spec sheet details the current list of virtualized hardware: http://www.vmware.com/pdf/server_specs.pdf chris From jce at zot.com Fri Mar 3 23:11:34 2006 From: jce at zot.com (Chris Edillon) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:11:34 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060303151416.iznv0be7aw2s4k40@www.embedded-sys.com> References: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> <7ff566830603011253h655f9237p60ec30a859def1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1ad34df30603011310l13d19737r963bb875f8bf210a@mail.gmail.com> <7ff566830603011312m6dc9658ehbed81cc65625cdb1@mail.gmail.com> <42d22dbf0603020530o1956dc0au853ff7418ec4d07f@mail.gmail.com> <20060303113905.qou7bz3pxzrk8o0c@www.embedded-sys.com> <42d22dbf0603030942x3a4c7712ubd6c59a474141f96@mail.gmail.com> <1141411507.5080.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060303151416.iznv0be7aw2s4k40@www.embedded-sys.com> Message-ID: <1141449094.26744.18.camel@ruthless> On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 15:14 -0500, Eric Gosnell wrote: > It is my understanding that one of the best benefits of using VMWare is found > when you are doing kernel development. It simplifies the boot reboot > process. You can bounce/crash the kernel in much less time under > VMWare. developers are their target market with workstation, especially with all the new features in 5.x (multiple nested snapshots, bandwidth/latency simulation, etc.). typically you'd snapshot a known good state, do some development, see what happens, and revert to your known good state if something bad happens. chris From djohngo at gmail.com Sat Mar 4 22:57:34 2006 From: djohngo at gmail.com (John Cunningham) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:57:34 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Data recovery companies? Message-ID: <7e2415c80603042057y5b8ef7a9g1aa99296024daa88@mail.gmail.com> Can anyone recommend any data recovery companies in the area? I have a seriously corrupted drive that I would like to salvage. Thanks, John From strredwolf at gmail.com Sun Mar 5 00:00:32 2006 From: strredwolf at gmail.com (Kelly Price) Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 01:00:32 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Data recovery companies? In-Reply-To: <7e2415c80603042057y5b8ef7a9g1aa99296024daa88@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e2415c80603042057y5b8ef7a9g1aa99296024daa88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ff566830603042200k4cd5deabh6ef187cd8224d914@mail.gmail.com> Have you thrown Spinrite on it? On 3/4/06, John Cunningham wrote: > Can anyone recommend any data recovery companies in the area? I have > a seriously corrupted drive that I would like to salvage. > > Thanks, > > John > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price http://strredwolf.furrynet.com From beau at open-source-staffing.com Sun Mar 5 17:29:42 2006 From: beau at open-source-staffing.com (Beau Gould) Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:29:42 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [JOB] Python/Zope Dev, Rockville, MD | 60-100k | Relo OK Message-ID: <00a301c640ac$aeb6b580$0a02a8c0@superioss.com> Python/Zope Dev, Rockville, MD | 60-100k | Relo OK Job Description: The main part of our development will take place in our Rockville, MD office. We are looking for a developer who will work from this office. The envisioned services are web applications and thorough knowledge and expertise in developing these kinds of applications is essential. We seek core competencies in web application development, both on the client side creating rich internet applications (RIA/AJAX) and on the server side of the application. Fine tuning and scalability expertise is of interest. Next to technical and computer science expertise, the developer should be comfortable in a multi-disciplinary context and should be able to explain technical issues to smart but not-so-technical colleagues. Familiarity with the biomedical domain and language is a plus. Qualifications: Python / Zope / Java / Object Oriented Programming, HTML / CSS / XML / JavaScript / Rich Internet Applications (RIA / AJAX), Linux / Windows. Candidates should be willing to work in the MD, VA, D.C. area and be authorized to work in the USA. Relocation OK. This is an on-site, salaried position in Rockville, MD. Please no offshore or telecommuters. To be considered, please submit your resume, a paragraph highlighting your Python / Zope experience and your salary requirements to beau at open-source-staffing.com Thank you, Beau J. Gould Open Source Staffing beau at open-source-staffing.com www.open-source-staffing.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/3/2006 From jdferrell3 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 5 22:26:51 2006 From: jdferrell3 at yahoo.com (John Ferrell) Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:26:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CALUG] PAM_LDAP verbose logging? Message-ID: <20060306042651.69145.qmail@web53505.mail.yahoo.com> I am trying to configure my linux box to authenticate users using LDAP. More specifically, I only want to verify the user's password using LDAP, the accounts are local. As far as I can tell then system is performing the LDAP bind during the login process; using tcpflow I can see the LDAP information passed to the server. Unfortunately, I cannot tell what is really going on. Even though I have 'debug' option enabled in the pam config file, the logs do not show any pam_ldap activity. Below is a snippet from the sshd pam config with LDAP: #LDAP auth sufficient pam_ldap.so use_first_pass debug auth required pam_stack.so service=system-auth auth required pam_nologin.so account required pam_stack.so service=system-auth ... Originally, I was getting a bind error in my /var/log/messages. After fixing ldap.conf and verifing the settings using ldapsearch, I no longer see the error. However, I don't see an specific pam_ldap errors in any of my logs now. I have done some searching and found a few news group postings with some sample logs. It looks like there is a way to enable more verbose logging: Dec 8 10:04:43 linux29 login[2063]: pam_ldap: error trying to bind as user "cn=Linux29,ou=SER,ou=KLK,o=EK" (Invalid credentials) There is a debug option in ldap.conf, but that just created a log file with output similar to running ldapsearch with the debugging option. My main box is Red Hat AS 4, but I have tried this on Ubuntu and SuSE boxes as well, with the same results. Hopefully someone can point me to the debugging option so that my logs are a bit more helpful in troubleshooting this issue. thanks, John From robert+calug at trueblade.com Mon Mar 6 09:47:54 2006 From: robert+calug at trueblade.com (Robert Burgoyne) Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:47:54 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Monthly Meeting on Wednesday, March 8th at 7:00 PM - NEW LOCATION Message-ID: <440C59AA.7030900@trueblade.com> Our regular monthly meeting of CA LUG will be held on Wednesday, March 8th at 7:00 PM. Note that we have moved the meetings to a NEW LOCATION (see below). This month's presentation will be by Robert Burgoyne on the exciting Plone open-source content management system and its underlying Zope framework. Plone is easy to learn yet powerful enough for the most complex websites. Once you build your first Plone website and find out how easy it is to quickly add content and build a great website, there's no looking back. More information about this event: More information about Plone: Our meeting will be held in the Columbia, Maryland offices of Hewlett Packard, located at: 8890 McGaw Road, Suite 100 Columbia, MD 21045 See you there! -- Robert Burgoyne From opensource22 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 7 11:46:42 2006 From: opensource22 at yahoo.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:46:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060301115825.x8tbi6431bwc084c@www.embedded-sys.com> Message-ID: <20060307174642.67492.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> I would recommend: an HP Laptop and SUSE Linux I had (& still have) a pretty good experience using the above combination. I am using an HP Pavillion DV1000 CTO laptop with SUSE Linux 10 and Windows XP Pro dual boot setup and Suse being my main OS. Installing SUSE is *easy* and painless and using it is fun. It is more organized and polished compared to other distros.(IMO) I used Fedora and Debian before. I had also been using an HP Pavillion zt 1270 laptop (which I bought 3 years ago) with Suse versions 8.1, 9.1 and 9.2 (not simultaneously). Dell laptops plain sucked the last time I saw them with their stupid positioning of the keyboard keys, cd player, I/O ports and everything. I am a Java/J2EE developer and a part-time Solaris/Linux sys admin and SUSE had been a *productive* and *fun* OS to use with all the necessary tools (for Programming, Adminstration, Entertainment). Wait, if you can, for Suse 10.1 to come out this month end, otherwise use Suse 10. As one caluger suggested, instead of dual-booting, you can use VMWare with either Suse or Windows being your primary OS or Suse EvalCD to just try it out. -Jay --- Eric Gosnell wrote: > I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux > as my primary OS. (I will > dual boot so I can still have Windows based games, > Visual Studio, etc.) Are > some laptop manufacturers better at providing Linux > drivers for their hardware? > What do you recommend? Second, are some > distributions better for laptop > support than others? > > (I am only slightly better than a novice at Linux > administration. I am a > developer and I use it frequently at work. This is > my attempt to force myself > to become more adept at it.) > > Thanks, > Eric > > -- > Eric N. Gosnell > Embedded Systems Design, Inc. > 6810 Deerpath Road, Suite 300 > Elkridge, MD 21075 > 410-712-7290 (voice) > 410-712-7291 (fax) > > eric.gosnell at embedded-sys.com > Voice Mail ext. 223 > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) > mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From randspayne at comcast.net Tue Mar 7 19:15:20 2006 From: randspayne at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:15:20 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060307174642.67492.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060307174642.67492.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0FB0B7B9-75E0-45AC-8667-31EA8A320582@comcast.net> >> I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary >> OS. I would suggest trying as many distros as is practicable before deciding on hardware. I know it may seem counterintuitive. Some folks like to tinker, troubleshoot, constantly update, and so like distros like gentoo. Some like a more out-of-the-box distro like Suse or Mandriva. And then there are some one-CD distros like Ubuntu. And live-CD distros like Knoppix, Knoppix-STD, Overclockix. Many people even put more server-oriented OS's on their laptops like the BSD's. The point I would make is that you might look for the distro you like most, then check out the supported hardware page of their website before looking for a laptop. Let your OS be your guide. Oh, and why not just keep that Windows partition on your OEM hardware? I am now looking for a new laptop, because all the distance learning delivery vehicles for IT grad degrees seem to work properly only in Windows using IE. Go figure. By the way, I would be happy to receive some feedback from the group on how wrong I am about that last bit. I really would prefer to use my PowerBook for school instead of investing in more hardware. Cheers, Rob From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Tue Mar 7 22:03:02 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:03:02 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Install From Running Old Version? In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060219182635.046ff570@atlanticdb.com> Message-ID: <440E5776.9050607@Comcast.NET> You didn't listen to his question. The note seems to imply that the install program is already running. And while a PXE boot might work, it's unnlikely that it will on a BIOS that can't boot from a CD or DVD. Anyway, the note that Jason pointed to is what you want to use *after* you get the install program (anaconda) running. I have heard one person mention how he simply extracts the initrd image from the first ISO, mounts that, chroots to it, and runs "/linuxrc", which is pretty much what happens when any linux is booted. You may need some additional support, such as mounting your own /proc onto /whereever/proc before you chroot to /wherever. During the installation you use the "askmethod" argument and don't format the partition you are installing into, since it also contains the ISOs you will be installing from. If you have a floppy disk (yuk!) or a USB drive that simulates one, you can boot from there. There are programs that will boot from a CD after they are running. Good Luck! Altho perhaps it's time to get a new computer! Or explore the mysteries of LFS, Linux From Scratch! JIM Jason Dixon wrote: > On Feb 19, 2006, at 6:28 PM, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > > >>I'm trying to install Fedora Core 3 on a machine that won't boot from >>either the CDROM or DVD drives. It has Linux 6.2 running. Is there a >>way to start the install from the running Linux? > > > http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc4/sn- > installing-from-harddrive.html > > > -- > Jason Dixon > DixonGroup Consulting > http://www.dixongroup.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > From jah1066 at aol.com Wed Mar 8 06:57:35 2006 From: jah1066 at aol.com (John Alan Hastings) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:57:35 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <20060307174642.67492.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060307174642.67492.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <440ED4BF.9020101@aol.com> opensource22 at yahoo.com wrote: > I would recommend: > an HP Laptop and SUSE Linux > > I had (& still have) a pretty good experience using > the above combination. I am using an HP Pavillion > DV1000 CTO laptop with SUSE Linux 10 and Windows XP > Pro dual boot setup and Suse being my main OS. > Installing SUSE is *easy* and painless and using it is > fun. It is more organized and polished compared to > other distros.(IMO) > I used Fedora and Debian before. I have also had good results with SuSE and laptops, however, on my HP Pavillion DV1000 I was not able to install it with ACPI. When I installed it with ACPI, there was an interrupt conflict and I was not able use the wired ethernet port. At the moment, I am running it without ACPI, but would like to know if there is any magic that would allow me to install SuSE with ACPI and still be able to use the wired ethernet port (I don't use wireless). From jah1066 at aol.com Wed Mar 8 07:04:07 2006 From: jah1066 at aol.com (John Alan Hastings) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 08:04:07 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <0FB0B7B9-75E0-45AC-8667-31EA8A320582@comcast.net> References: <20060307174642.67492.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> <0FB0B7B9-75E0-45AC-8667-31EA8A320582@comcast.net> Message-ID: <440ED647.2060902@aol.com> >>>I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary >>>OS. > * * snip * * > > > Oh, and why not just keep that Windows partition on your OEM > hardware? I am now looking for a new laptop, because all the > distance learning delivery vehicles for IT grad degrees seem to work > properly only in Windows using IE. Go figure. By the way, I would > be happy to receive some feedback from the group on how wrong I am > about that last bit. I really would prefer to use my PowerBook for > school instead of investing in more hardware. Keeping a Windows partition is a good idea, however, repartition your disk as early in the life of the system as you can. I had the bright idea of repartitioning a reasonably old and well used Toshiba and began by defragging it. When the defrag was over, I found that NTFS had left a number of things it calls unmoveable blocks scattered around on the disk, and of course there was not enough room between them to install any reasonable Linux partitions. From robert+calug at trueblade.com Thu Mar 9 11:36:41 2006 From: robert+calug at trueblade.com (Robert Burgoyne) Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:36:41 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Plone Follow Up from Last Night's Meeting Message-ID: <441067A9.1090808@trueblade.com> I want to thank everyone for coming to last night's meeting, and thank Hewlett Packard for taking on the job of being our new host. Our April meeting will be at the same location. Here's a follow-up on a couple of the questions raised. Section 508 Usability Compliance Plone Solutions of Norway, headed by Alexander Limi, one of the original developers of Plone, claims: "Plone is known as the content management system that was engineered for accessibility from the very beginning, and it has continued to be the world leader in accessibility compliance. It was the first Content Management System to fulfill the criteria in the US Section 508 and the W3C's WAI-AA guidelines. "Plone Solutions has played an important role in this work, and we extend our expertise to helping you make your site as accessible as possible." U.S. Government Website on Section 508 Ukrainian Hotel with a Great Plone Website Their website cuts the graphical elements across the top and left columns into smaller items in order to achieve a graphical image that spreads the full width across your browser, regardless of screen size. It also dices the left-most panel, or left slot, into different graphical image pieces as well. If you are using Firefox, You can go to the above page and select: Tools, Page Info, Media to examine each of the graphical elements used to construct the overall graphical elements. Last Night's Presentation on Plone in S5 Format Best at 1024x768 or better resolution. Use the standard PowerPoint commands to navigate the slides, or move your mouse over the lower right corner to display the navigation window. Press "t" to toggle between slideshow mode and outline mode (for printing), and Ctrl-R to redraw if the screen doesn't cleanly redraw. S5: A Simple Standards-Based Slide Show System Eric A. Meyer's brilliant CSS and java based system for doing online presentations. See you next month! From jason.c.miller at gmail.com Fri Mar 10 07:23:20 2006 From: jason.c.miller at gmail.com (Jason C. Miller) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:23:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? Message-ID: I would like to get some advice from all the smart folks out there. I was tasked to create a non-trivial application in an unbelievably unreasonable amount of time. So, I basically just made a nice front-end with a bunch of buttons (using Glade) and simply made system() calls to external bash scripts for each button. Not my favorite way of doing business, but, gotta do what ya gotta do. Anyhoo, I will be making incremental releases of this software and will be filling in the gaps as I go along. One problem is that it is going to be a while before I have the time to implement all of the button functions in C/C++. My question to everyone is this... For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in a way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand the logic that executes within them? As an example, I considered writing the scripts in PERL and using perlcc to compile the scripts into system binaries. This would allow me to maintain the scripts for development but deploy them as binaries for delivery. However, in the past, I haven't been very pleased with the perl compiler and would be happy to avoid it. I don't have a very extensive history in subversive development practices, so I was hoping that someone out there might have some ideas. :) -jason -- From jason at dixongroup.net Fri Mar 10 08:00:30 2006 From: jason at dixongroup.net (Jason Dixon) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:00:30 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76A5AAB8-60E5-4E20-BF90-E4CE802EA86E@dixongroup.net> On Mar 10, 2006, at 8:23 AM, Jason C. Miller wrote: > For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does > anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in > a way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand > the logic that executes within them? > > As an example, I considered writing the scripts in PERL > and using perlcc to compile the scripts into system binaries. This > would > allow me to maintain the scripts for development but deploy them as > binaries for delivery. However, in the past, I haven't been very > pleased > with the perl compiler and would be happy to avoid it. As a pragmatic Perl developer, I would think its native syntactical quirks would be enough to obfuscate its intent without any additional compilation. ;-) -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net From attriel at d20boards.net Fri Mar 10 09:32:51 2006 From: attriel at d20boards.net (attriel) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:32:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: <76A5AAB8-60E5-4E20-BF90-E4CE802EA86E@dixongroup.net> References: <76A5AAB8-60E5-4E20-BF90-E4CE802EA86E@dixongroup.net> Message-ID: <52843.66.93.55.216.1142004771.squirrel@mail.d20boards.net> > On Mar 10, 2006, at 8:23 AM, Jason C. Miller wrote: > >> For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does >> anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in >> a way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand >> the logic that executes within them? > > As a pragmatic Perl developer, I would think its native syntactical > quirks would be enough to obfuscate its intent without any additional > compilation. ;-) you could always add comments. seems to make my perl completely unintelligible :o there's probably a module that you could use to encrypt the perl files, then send a key to the wrapper script that then decrypts to memory and calls into the script i've never really worried too much about trying to hide my code. i don't seem to work with anyone who can understand computers anyway :o From jason.c.miller at gmail.com Fri Mar 10 13:43:30 2006 From: jason.c.miller at gmail.com (Jason C. Miller) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:43:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: <52843.66.93.55.216.1142004771.squirrel@mail.d20boards.net> Message-ID: I actually considered doing something like that. Instead of... system("prog.sh") /* From the C code */ ...I could write something like... system("cat prog.sh.crypt | decrypt_somehow | sh") ....but the problem with that is that I doubt I could hide the plaintext key anywhere well enough. Even if I put that key in the binary itself, it could still be plucked out with something like 'strings' or 'strace'. Good start to an idea though. :) On Fri, 10 Mar 2006, attriel wrote: > > On Mar 10, 2006, at 8:23 AM, Jason C. Miller wrote: > > > >> For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does > >> anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in > >> a way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand > >> the logic that executes within them? > > > > As a pragmatic Perl developer, I would think its native syntactical > > quirks would be enough to obfuscate its intent without any additional > > compilation. ;-) > > you could always add comments. > > seems to make my perl completely unintelligible :o > > > there's probably a module that you could use to encrypt the perl files, > then send a key to the wrapper script that then decrypts to memory and > calls into the script > > i've never really worried too much about trying to hide my code. i don't > seem to work with anyone who can understand computers anyway :o -- From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Fri Mar 10 19:00:23 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:00:23 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44122127.9010808@Comcast.NET> Don't confuse Ownership with Visibility. You can still write contracts and restrict usage and distribution even tho the source code is available. Your attempt to hide it only does the following: [1] delays your development time while you work out a solution [2] further delays your development while you debug the mess. [3] delays the finish product while the finished product runs [4] pisses off your customers and everyone who hears about it because you are assuming that they will steal it if you don't hide it. Given that Linux is Open Source Software, you won't get much support here for what you are trying to do here. We understand that you wish to make money, retain ownership and rights. There is still a way to do that without closing your source. Take the High Road and Find the Middle Ground. JIM Jason C. Miller wrote: > I would like to get some advice from all the smart folks out there. > > I was tasked to create a non-trivial application in an unbelievably > unreasonable amount of time. So, I basically just made a nice front-end > with a bunch of buttons (using Glade) and simply made system() calls to > external bash scripts for each button. Not my favorite way of doing > business, but, gotta do what ya gotta do. > > Anyhoo, I will be making incremental releases of this software and will be > filling in the gaps as I go along. One problem is that it is going to > be a while before I have the time to implement all of the button functions > in C/C++. > > My question to everyone is this... > For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does > anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in > a way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand > the logic that executes within them? > > As an example, I considered writing the scripts in PERL > and using perlcc to compile the scripts into system binaries. This would > allow me to maintain the scripts for development but deploy them as > binaries for delivery. However, in the past, I haven't been very pleased > with the perl compiler and would be happy to avoid it. > > I don't have a very extensive history in subversive development practices, > so I was hoping that someone out there might have some ideas. :) > > -jason > > > From jfbauer at comcast.net Fri Mar 10 19:52:53 2006 From: jfbauer at comcast.net (Jim Bauer) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:52:53 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200603102052.53077.jfbauer@comcast.net> On Friday 10 March 2006 08:23, Jason C. Miller wrote: > My question to everyone is this... > For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does > anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in > a way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand > the logic that executes within them? Your code will be copyrighted. Copyright law is, by far, one of the strongest laws that exist. You will retain ownership (really owning the limited monopoly right copyright law grants you). Combine that with a contract if necessary. You don't need any further protection. From jason.c.miller at gmail.com Fri Mar 10 21:50:20 2006 From: jason.c.miller at gmail.com (Jason C. Miller) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:50:20 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: <44122127.9010808@Comcast.NET> References: <44122127.9010808@Comcast.NET> Message-ID: <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> With all due respect, I can tell that you probably don't operate under the same business models that we (my company and I) do. In our business, it's about value-added software and often the need to deploy rapidly prototyped applications that are well in the infancy of their life cycles. Anyone who's ever gone head-to-head with another company to win a contract based solely on your ability to out-innovate your competition (and quickly) would understand that. Allowing access to our software by these competitors with blatantly open scripts is unacceptable, at best. I'm really going to try to avoid going into the ages-old rhetoric of open and closed source software. This is also hardly a contractual issue. I would love to see someone tell Microsoft...."Sure....beat everyone to market with your innovations and make sure that you have a great EULA to blanket your yet-to-be-secured source because that will DEFINATELY keep any drooling competitors from being influenced by your problem solving and coding methods". I'm just a grunt engineer. I hate dealing with money and I hate dealing with managment and contractual issues even more. I simply wanted to ask some seasoned geeks how they would go about protecting the privacy of their work until their projects became a little more mature and secure. I most certainly am not advocating closed source software or even the proprietarization (is that a real word??) of any open source software. I mean, things like iptables/ipchains is open source, yet there are probably plenty of people out there that wouldn't share their firewall rules with ANYBODY because maybe they have a particular way of doing things that they think brings value to them. Same concept! There's also openssh. You can use that to secure everything but the kitchen sink. Just because you're securing your stuff doesn't mean you're wanting to close-source everything. My question is a technical one...pure and simple. I've got some stuff that I want to keep prying eyes away from. When I want good insight from some good professionals on how to get things done, I typically come here first (well...after Google). I seriously doubt that telling a lawyer "They stole lines from my script!!" is the solution to my problem. Anyway...for anyone out there who's interested. I'm currently looking at the Solaris 'crypt' utility. Hopefully that'll bring me down some good roads. :) -j James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > Don't confuse Ownership with Visibility. You can still write contracts > and restrict usage and distribution even tho the source code is > available. Your attempt to hide it only does the following: [1] delays > your development time while you work out a solution [2] further delays > your development while you debug the mess. [3] delays the finish > product while the finished product runs [4] pisses off your customers > and everyone who hears about it because you are assuming that they > will steal it if you don't hide it. > > Given that Linux is Open Source Software, you won't get much support > here for what you are trying to do here. > > We understand that you wish to make money, retain ownership and > rights. There is still a way to do that without closing your source. > Take the High Road and Find the Middle Ground. > > JIM > > Jason C. Miller wrote: > >> I would like to get some advice from all the smart folks out there. >> >> I was tasked to create a non-trivial application in an unbelievably >> unreasonable amount of time. So, I basically just made a nice >> front-end with a bunch of buttons (using Glade) and simply made >> system() calls to external bash scripts for each button. Not my >> favorite way of doing business, but, gotta do what ya gotta do. >> Anyhoo, I will be making incremental releases of this software and >> will be filling in the gaps as I go along. One problem is that it is >> going to be a while before I have the time to implement all of the >> button functions in C/C++. >> My question to everyone is this... >> For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does >> anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in a >> way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand the >> logic that executes within them? >> As an example, I considered writing the scripts in PERL and using >> perlcc to compile the scripts into system binaries. This would allow >> me to maintain the scripts for development but deploy them as >> binaries for delivery. However, in the past, I haven't been very >> pleased with the perl compiler and would be happy to avoid it. >> >> I don't have a very extensive history in subversive development >> practices, so I was hoping that someone out there might have some >> ideas. :) >> >> -jason >> >> >> -- *************************************************** My blog: http://millersplace.blogspot.com/ *************************************************** From dlg at dorkzilla.org Sat Mar 11 00:16:04 2006 From: dlg at dorkzilla.org (david l goodrich) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:16:04 -0600 Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> References: <44122127.9010808@Comcast.NET> <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44126B24.4000102@dorkzilla.org> Jason C. Miller wrote: > With all due respect, I can tell that you probably don't operate under > the same business models that we (my company and I) do. with all due respect, you probably don't operate under the same business model as the linux/foss movement. and linux/foss is /why/ calug exists. you won't find a sympathetic audience here. --david > In our > business, it's about value-added software and often the need to deploy > rapidly prototyped applications that are well in the infancy of their > life cycles. Anyone who's ever gone head-to-head with another company > to win a contract based solely on your ability to out-innovate your > competition (and quickly) would understand that. > > Allowing access to our software by these competitors with blatantly open > scripts is unacceptable, at best. > > I'm really going to try to avoid going into the ages-old rhetoric of > open and closed source software. This is also hardly a contractual > issue. I would love to see someone tell Microsoft...."Sure....beat > everyone to market with your innovations and make sure that you have a > great EULA to blanket your yet-to-be-secured source because that will > DEFINATELY keep any drooling competitors from being influenced by your > problem solving and coding methods". > > I'm just a grunt engineer. I hate dealing with money and I hate dealing > with managment and contractual issues even more. I simply wanted to ask > some seasoned geeks how they would go about protecting the privacy of > their work until their projects became a little more mature and secure. > I most certainly am not advocating closed source software or even the > proprietarization (is that a real word??) of any open source software. > > I mean, things like iptables/ipchains is open source, yet there are > probably plenty of people out there that wouldn't share their firewall > rules with ANYBODY because maybe they have a particular way of doing > things that they think brings value to them. Same concept! There's > also openssh. You can use that to secure everything but the kitchen > sink. Just because you're securing your stuff doesn't mean you're > wanting to close-source everything. > > My question is a technical one...pure and simple. I've got some stuff > that I want to keep prying eyes away from. > When I want good insight from some good professionals on how to get > things done, I typically come here first (well...after Google). I > seriously doubt that telling a lawyer "They stole lines from my > script!!" is the solution to my problem. > > Anyway...for anyone out there who's interested. I'm currently looking > at the Solaris 'crypt' utility. Hopefully that'll bring me down some > good roads. :) > > > > -j > > James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > >> Don't confuse Ownership with Visibility. You can still write contracts >> and restrict usage and distribution even tho the source code is >> available. Your attempt to hide it only does the following: [1] delays >> your development time while you work out a solution [2] further delays >> your development while you debug the mess. [3] delays the finish >> product while the finished product runs [4] pisses off your customers >> and everyone who hears about it because you are assuming that they >> will steal it if you don't hide it. >> >> Given that Linux is Open Source Software, you won't get much support >> here for what you are trying to do here. >> >> We understand that you wish to make money, retain ownership and >> rights. There is still a way to do that without closing your source. >> Take the High Road and Find the Middle Ground. >> >> JIM >> >> Jason C. Miller wrote: >> >>> I would like to get some advice from all the smart folks out there. >>> >>> I was tasked to create a non-trivial application in an unbelievably >>> unreasonable amount of time. So, I basically just made a nice >>> front-end with a bunch of buttons (using Glade) and simply made >>> system() calls to external bash scripts for each button. Not my >>> favorite way of doing business, but, gotta do what ya gotta do. >>> Anyhoo, I will be making incremental releases of this software and >>> will be filling in the gaps as I go along. One problem is that it is >>> going to be a while before I have the time to implement all of the >>> button functions in C/C++. >>> My question to everyone is this... >>> For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does >>> anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in a >>> way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand the >>> logic that executes within them? >>> As an example, I considered writing the scripts in PERL and using >>> perlcc to compile the scripts into system binaries. This would allow >>> me to maintain the scripts for development but deploy them as >>> binaries for delivery. However, in the past, I haven't been very >>> pleased with the perl compiler and would be happy to avoid it. >>> >>> I don't have a very extensive history in subversive development >>> practices, so I was hoping that someone out there might have some >>> ideas. :) >>> >>> -jason >>> >>> >>> > > From dlg at dorkzilla.org Sat Mar 11 00:16:09 2006 From: dlg at dorkzilla.org (david l goodrich) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:16:09 -0600 Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> References: <44122127.9010808@Comcast.NET> <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44126B29.7020108@dorkzilla.org> Jason C. Miller wrote: > With all due respect, I can tell that you probably don't operate under > the same business models that we (my company and I) do. with all due respect, you probably don't operate under the same business model as the linux/foss movement. and linux/foss is /why/ calug exists. you won't find a sympathetic audience here. --david > In our > business, it's about value-added software and often the need to deploy > rapidly prototyped applications that are well in the infancy of their > life cycles. Anyone who's ever gone head-to-head with another company > to win a contract based solely on your ability to out-innovate your > competition (and quickly) would understand that. > > Allowing access to our software by these competitors with blatantly open > scripts is unacceptable, at best. > > I'm really going to try to avoid going into the ages-old rhetoric of > open and closed source software. This is also hardly a contractual > issue. I would love to see someone tell Microsoft...."Sure....beat > everyone to market with your innovations and make sure that you have a > great EULA to blanket your yet-to-be-secured source because that will > DEFINATELY keep any drooling competitors from being influenced by your > problem solving and coding methods". > > I'm just a grunt engineer. I hate dealing with money and I hate dealing > with managment and contractual issues even more. I simply wanted to ask > some seasoned geeks how they would go about protecting the privacy of > their work until their projects became a little more mature and secure. > I most certainly am not advocating closed source software or even the > proprietarization (is that a real word??) of any open source software. > > I mean, things like iptables/ipchains is open source, yet there are > probably plenty of people out there that wouldn't share their firewall > rules with ANYBODY because maybe they have a particular way of doing > things that they think brings value to them. Same concept! There's > also openssh. You can use that to secure everything but the kitchen > sink. Just because you're securing your stuff doesn't mean you're > wanting to close-source everything. > > My question is a technical one...pure and simple. I've got some stuff > that I want to keep prying eyes away from. > When I want good insight from some good professionals on how to get > things done, I typically come here first (well...after Google). I > seriously doubt that telling a lawyer "They stole lines from my > script!!" is the solution to my problem. > > Anyway...for anyone out there who's interested. I'm currently looking > at the Solaris 'crypt' utility. Hopefully that'll bring me down some > good roads. :) > > > > -j > > James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > >> Don't confuse Ownership with Visibility. You can still write contracts >> and restrict usage and distribution even tho the source code is >> available. Your attempt to hide it only does the following: [1] delays >> your development time while you work out a solution [2] further delays >> your development while you debug the mess. [3] delays the finish >> product while the finished product runs [4] pisses off your customers >> and everyone who hears about it because you are assuming that they >> will steal it if you don't hide it. >> >> Given that Linux is Open Source Software, you won't get much support >> here for what you are trying to do here. >> >> We understand that you wish to make money, retain ownership and >> rights. There is still a way to do that without closing your source. >> Take the High Road and Find the Middle Ground. >> >> JIM >> >> Jason C. Miller wrote: >> >>> I would like to get some advice from all the smart folks out there. >>> >>> I was tasked to create a non-trivial application in an unbelievably >>> unreasonable amount of time. So, I basically just made a nice >>> front-end with a bunch of buttons (using Glade) and simply made >>> system() calls to external bash scripts for each button. Not my >>> favorite way of doing business, but, gotta do what ya gotta do. >>> Anyhoo, I will be making incremental releases of this software and >>> will be filling in the gaps as I go along. One problem is that it is >>> going to be a while before I have the time to implement all of the >>> button functions in C/C++. >>> My question to everyone is this... >>> For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does >>> anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in a >>> way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand the >>> logic that executes within them? >>> As an example, I considered writing the scripts in PERL and using >>> perlcc to compile the scripts into system binaries. This would allow >>> me to maintain the scripts for development but deploy them as >>> binaries for delivery. However, in the past, I haven't been very >>> pleased with the perl compiler and would be happy to avoid it. >>> >>> I don't have a very extensive history in subversive development >>> practices, so I was hoping that someone out there might have some >>> ideas. :) >>> >>> -jason >>> >>> >>> > > From migc570 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 11 01:53:46 2006 From: migc570 at yahoo.com (Miguel Centrino) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:53:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: <76A5AAB8-60E5-4E20-BF90-E4CE802EA86E@dixongroup.net> Message-ID: <20060311075346.39553.qmail@web61315.mail.yahoo.com> The time you are wasting trying to hide and obfuscate your code, could be better used to write the C/C+. The thing to remember: If you don't have the time to do it now, when are you going to have the time? Jason Dixon wrote: On Mar 10, 2006, at 8:23 AM, Jason C. Miller wrote: > For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does > anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in > a way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand > the logic that executes within them? > > As an example, I considered writing the scripts in PERL > and using perlcc to compile the scripts into system binaries. This > would > allow me to maintain the scripts for development but deploy them as > binaries for delivery. However, in the past, I haven't been very > pleased > with the perl compiler and would be happy to avoid it. As a pragmatic Perl developer, I would think its native syntactical quirks would be enough to obfuscate its intent without any additional compilation. ;-) -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net _______________________________________________ Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com Email postings to: lug at calug.com Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060310/e6c3b48b/attachment.html From opn.src.rocks at gmail.com Sat Mar 11 15:54:59 2006 From: opn.src.rocks at gmail.com (Rajiv Gunja) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:54:59 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> References: <44122127.9010808@Comcast.NET> <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: All, Even though I love Open Source and would love everyone to share their work, I will have to go with Jason on this one. Yes open source is all fun and gay, but there comes a time, when you are developing a product or a solution which might need a little hide and seek. I do not know how you will be able to use crypt to achieve your goal. There is an Open Source solution for this. I had to use it almost a year ago, in my office, to encrypt an expect script, so that my users or level 1 admins will not be able to get to my passwords on certain machines. "shc", basically creates a C binary out of your shell script. Yes, I do know that is very simple to do the same from our side, but why bother when we have a tool for it. (not to mention my C programing skills are a little rusty). Jason, I do not know if this will help, but do look into it. http://www.linuxsecurity.com/content/view/117920/49/ Just in case, I am including the pdf of that page. -GGR --- Rajiv G Gunja System Analyst / Engg SUN / AIX / HPUX / Linux Admin IM: AOL / Yahoo / MSN : ggvrsn On 3/10/06, Jason C. Miller wrote: > > With all due respect, I can tell that you probably don't operate under > the same business models that we (my company and I) do. In our > business, it's about value-added software and often the need to deploy > rapidly prototyped applications that are well in the infancy of their > life cycles. Anyone who's ever gone head-to-head with another company > to win a contract based solely on your ability to out-innovate your > competition (and quickly) would understand that. > > Allowing access to our software by these competitors with blatantly open > scripts is unacceptable, at best. > > I'm really going to try to avoid going into the ages-old rhetoric of > open and closed source software. This is also hardly a contractual > issue. I would love to see someone tell Microsoft...."Sure....beat > everyone to market with your innovations and make sure that you have a > great EULA to blanket your yet-to-be-secured source because that will > DEFINATELY keep any drooling competitors from being influenced by your > problem solving and coding methods". > > I'm just a grunt engineer. I hate dealing with money and I hate dealing > with managment and contractual issues even more. I simply wanted to ask > some seasoned geeks how they would go about protecting the privacy of > their work until their projects became a little more mature and secure. > I most certainly am not advocating closed source software or even the > proprietarization (is that a real word??) of any open source software. > > I mean, things like iptables/ipchains is open source, yet there are > probably plenty of people out there that wouldn't share their firewall > rules with ANYBODY because maybe they have a particular way of doing > things that they think brings value to them. Same concept! There's > also openssh. You can use that to secure everything but the kitchen > sink. Just because you're securing your stuff doesn't mean you're > wanting to close-source everything. > > My question is a technical one...pure and simple. I've got some stuff > that I want to keep prying eyes away from. > When I want good insight from some good professionals on how to get > things done, I typically come here first (well...after Google). I > seriously doubt that telling a lawyer "They stole lines from my > script!!" is the solution to my problem. > > Anyway...for anyone out there who's interested. I'm currently looking > at the Solaris 'crypt' utility. Hopefully that'll bring me down some > good roads. :) > > > > -j > > James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > > > Don't confuse Ownership with Visibility. You can still write contracts > > and restrict usage and distribution even tho the source code is > > available. Your attempt to hide it only does the following: [1] delays > > your development time while you work out a solution [2] further delays > > your development while you debug the mess. [3] delays the finish > > product while the finished product runs [4] pisses off your customers > > and everyone who hears about it because you are assuming that they > > will steal it if you don't hide it. > > > > Given that Linux is Open Source Software, you won't get much support > > here for what you are trying to do here. > > > > We understand that you wish to make money, retain ownership and > > rights. There is still a way to do that without closing your source. > > Take the High Road and Find the Middle Ground. > > > > JIM > > > > Jason C. Miller wrote: > > > >> I would like to get some advice from all the smart folks out there. > >> > >> I was tasked to create a non-trivial application in an unbelievably > >> unreasonable amount of time. So, I basically just made a nice > >> front-end with a bunch of buttons (using Glade) and simply made > >> system() calls to external bash scripts for each button. Not my > >> favorite way of doing business, but, gotta do what ya gotta do. > >> Anyhoo, I will be making incremental releases of this software and > >> will be filling in the gaps as I go along. One problem is that it is > >> going to be a while before I have the time to implement all of the > >> button functions in C/C++. > >> My question to everyone is this... > >> For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does > >> anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in a > >> way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand the > >> logic that executes within them? > >> As an example, I considered writing the scripts in PERL and using > >> perlcc to compile the scripts into system binaries. This would allow > >> me to maintain the scripts for development but deploy them as > >> binaries for delivery. However, in the past, I haven't been very > >> pleased with the perl compiler and would be happy to avoid it. > >> > >> I don't have a very extensive history in subversive development > >> practices, so I was hoping that someone out there might have some > >> ideas. :) > >> > >> -jason > >> > >> > >> > > > -- > *************************************************** > My blog: http://millersplace.blogspot.com/ > *************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060311/e5fef0ed/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: shc_encrypting_shell_scripts.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 4348 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060311/e5fef0ed/attachment.pdf From decepticon at gmail.com Mon Mar 13 08:43:59 2006 From: decepticon at gmail.com (jason maxwell) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:43:59 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: References: <44122127.9010808@Comcast.NET> <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: you could write your code in whitespace: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/ seriously tho, i vaguely remember some kind of script for perl that inserts some whitespace and bogus characters to make your code completely illegible, but i really cant remember what its called. sorry. --Jason On 3/11/06, Rajiv Gunja wrote: > All, > Even though I love Open Source and would love everyone to share their work, > I will have to go with Jason on this one. Yes open source is all fun and > gay, but there comes a time, when you are developing a product or a solution > which might need a little hide and seek. > > I do not know how you will be able to use crypt to achieve your goal. There > is an Open Source solution for this. I had to use it almost a year ago, in > my office, to encrypt an expect script, so that my users or level 1 admins > will not be able to get to my passwords on certain machines. > > "shc", basically creates a C binary out of your shell script. Yes, I do know > that is very simple to do the same from our side, but why bother when we > have a tool for it. (not to mention my C programing skills are a little > rusty). > > Jason, I do not know if this will help, but do look into it. > > http://www.linuxsecurity.com/content/view/117920/49/ > > Just in case, I am including the pdf of that page. > > -GGR > > --- > Rajiv G Gunja > System Analyst / Engg > SUN / AIX / HPUX / Linux Admin > IM: AOL / Yahoo / MSN : ggvrsn > > > On 3/10/06, Jason C. Miller wrote: > > > > With all due respect, I can tell that you probably don't operate under > > the same business models that we (my company and I) do. In our > > business, it's about value-added software and often the need to deploy > > rapidly prototyped applications that are well in the infancy of their > > life cycles. Anyone who's ever gone head-to-head with another company > > to win a contract based solely on your ability to out-innovate your > > competition (and quickly) would understand that. > > > > Allowing access to our software by these competitors with blatantly open > > scripts is unacceptable, at best. > > > > I'm really going to try to avoid going into the ages-old rhetoric of > > open and closed source software. This is also hardly a contractual > > issue. I would love to see someone tell Microsoft...."Sure....beat > > everyone to market with your innovations and make sure that you have a > > great EULA to blanket your yet-to-be-secured source because that will > > DEFINATELY keep any drooling competitors from being influenced by your > > problem solving and coding methods". > > > > I'm just a grunt engineer. I hate dealing with money and I hate dealing > > with managment and contractual issues even more. I simply wanted to ask > > some seasoned geeks how they would go about protecting the privacy of > > their work until their projects became a little more mature and secure. > > I most certainly am not advocating closed source software or even the > > proprietarization (is that a real word??) of any open source software. > > > > I mean, things like iptables/ipchains is open source, yet there are > > probably plenty of people out there that wouldn't share their firewall > > rules with ANYBODY because maybe they have a particular way of doing > > things that they think brings value to them. Same concept! There's > > also openssh. You can use that to secure everything but the kitchen > > sink. Just because you're securing your stuff doesn't mean you're > > wanting to close-source everything. > > > > My question is a technical one...pure and simple. I've got some stuff > > that I want to keep prying eyes away from. > > When I want good insight from some good professionals on how to get > > things done, I typically come here first (well...after Google). I > > seriously doubt that telling a lawyer "They stole lines from my > > script!!" is the solution to my problem. > > > > Anyway...for anyone out there who's interested. I'm currently looking > > at the Solaris 'crypt' utility. Hopefully that'll bring me down some > > good roads. :) > > > > > > > > -j > > > > James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > > > > > Don't confuse Ownership with Visibility. You can still write contracts > > > and restrict usage and distribution even tho the source code is > > > available. Your attempt to hide it only does the following: [1] delays > > > your development time while you work out a solution [2] further delays > > > your development while you debug the mess. [3] delays the finish > > > product while the finished product runs [4] pisses off your customers > > > and everyone who hears about it because you are assuming that they > > > will steal it if you don't hide it. > > > > > > Given that Linux is Open Source Software, you won't get much support > > > here for what you are trying to do here. > > > > > > We understand that you wish to make money, retain ownership and > > > rights. There is still a way to do that without closing your source. > > > Take the High Road and Find the Middle Ground. > > > > > > JIM > > > > > > Jason C. Miller wrote: > > > > > >> I would like to get some advice from all the smart folks out there. > > >> > > >> I was tasked to create a non-trivial application in an unbelievably > > >> unreasonable amount of time. So, I basically just made a nice > > >> front-end with a bunch of buttons (using Glade) and simply made > > >> system() calls to external bash scripts for each button. Not my > > >> favorite way of doing business, but, gotta do what ya gotta do. > > >> Anyhoo, I will be making incremental releases of this software and > > >> will be filling in the gaps as I go along. One problem is that it is > > >> going to be a while before I have the time to implement all of the > > >> button functions in C/C++. > > >> My question to everyone is this... > > >> For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does > > >> anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in a > > >> way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand the > > >> logic that executes within them? > > >> As an example, I considered writing the scripts in PERL and using > > >> perlcc to compile the scripts into system binaries. This would allow > > >> me to maintain the scripts for development but deploy them as > > >> binaries for delivery. However, in the past, I haven't been very > > >> pleased with the perl compiler and would be happy to avoid it. > > >> > > >> I don't have a very extensive history in subversive development > > >> practices, so I was hoping that someone out there might have some > > >> ideas. :) > > >> > > >> -jason > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -- > > *************************************************** > > My blog: http://millersplace.blogspot.com/ > > *************************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > Change your list subscription options: > > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > -- > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060311/e5fef0ed/attachment.html > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: shc_encrypting_shell_scripts.pdf > Type: application/pdf > Size: 4348 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060311/e5fef0ed/attachment.pdf > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > From calug at mikemiller.net Mon Mar 13 10:14:44 2006 From: calug at mikemiller.net (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:14:44 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: References: <44122127.9010808@Comcast.NET> <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <97dbbad10603130814gc0257csf3d3addf47511b71@mail.gmail.com> Look at Acme::Bleachand Acme::Eyedrops. Both are code-obfuscation modules written (or inspired) by Damian Conway. They're intended more as an exercise in silliness than for actual production code. But they do work. -Mike On 3/13/06, jason maxwell wrote: > you could write your code in whitespace: > http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/ > > seriously tho, i vaguely remember some kind of script for perl that > inserts some whitespace and bogus characters to make your code > completely illegible, but i really cant remember what its called. > sorry. > --Jason > > On 3/11/06, Rajiv Gunja wrote: > > All, > > Even though I love Open Source and would love everyone to share their work, > > I will have to go with Jason on this one. Yes open source is all fun and > > gay, but there comes a time, when you are developing a product or a solution > > which might need a little hide and seek. > > > > I do not know how you will be able to use crypt to achieve your goal. There > > is an Open Source solution for this. I had to use it almost a year ago, in > > my office, to encrypt an expect script, so that my users or level 1 admins > > will not be able to get to my passwords on certain machines. > > > > "shc", basically creates a C binary out of your shell script. Yes, I do know > > that is very simple to do the same from our side, but why bother when we > > have a tool for it. (not to mention my C programing skills are a little > > rusty). > > > > Jason, I do not know if this will help, but do look into it. > > > > http://www.linuxsecurity.com/content/view/117920/49/ > > > > Just in case, I am including the pdf of that page. > > > > -GGR > > > > --- > > Rajiv G Gunja > > System Analyst / Engg > > SUN / AIX / HPUX / Linux Admin > > IM: AOL / Yahoo / MSN : ggvrsn > > > > > > On 3/10/06, Jason C. Miller wrote: > > > > > > With all due respect, I can tell that you probably don't operate under > > > the same business models that we (my company and I) do. In our > > > business, it's about value-added software and often the need to deploy > > > rapidly prototyped applications that are well in the infancy of their > > > life cycles. Anyone who's ever gone head-to-head with another company > > > to win a contract based solely on your ability to out-innovate your > > > competition (and quickly) would understand that. > > > > > > Allowing access to our software by these competitors with blatantly open > > > scripts is unacceptable, at best. > > > > > > I'm really going to try to avoid going into the ages-old rhetoric of > > > open and closed source software. This is also hardly a contractual > > > issue. I would love to see someone tell Microsoft...."Sure....beat > > > everyone to market with your innovations and make sure that you have a > > > great EULA to blanket your yet-to-be-secured source because that will > > > DEFINATELY keep any drooling competitors from being influenced by your > > > problem solving and coding methods". > > > > > > I'm just a grunt engineer. I hate dealing with money and I hate dealing > > > with managment and contractual issues even more. I simply wanted to ask > > > some seasoned geeks how they would go about protecting the privacy of > > > their work until their projects became a little more mature and secure. > > > I most certainly am not advocating closed source software or even the > > > proprietarization (is that a real word??) of any open source software. > > > > > > I mean, things like iptables/ipchains is open source, yet there are > > > probably plenty of people out there that wouldn't share their firewall > > > rules with ANYBODY because maybe they have a particular way of doing > > > things that they think brings value to them. Same concept! There's > > > also openssh. You can use that to secure everything but the kitchen > > > sink. Just because you're securing your stuff doesn't mean you're > > > wanting to close-source everything. > > > > > > My question is a technical one...pure and simple. I've got some stuff > > > that I want to keep prying eyes away from. > > > When I want good insight from some good professionals on how to get > > > things done, I typically come here first (well...after Google). I > > > seriously doubt that telling a lawyer "They stole lines from my > > > script!!" is the solution to my problem. > > > > > > Anyway...for anyone out there who's interested. I'm currently looking > > > at the Solaris 'crypt' utility. Hopefully that'll bring me down some > > > good roads. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > -j > > > > > > James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > > > > > > > Don't confuse Ownership with Visibility. You can still write contracts > > > > and restrict usage and distribution even tho the source code is > > > > available. Your attempt to hide it only does the following: [1] delays > > > > your development time while you work out a solution [2] further delays > > > > your development while you debug the mess. [3] delays the finish > > > > product while the finished product runs [4] pisses off your customers > > > > and everyone who hears about it because you are assuming that they > > > > will steal it if you don't hide it. > > > > > > > > Given that Linux is Open Source Software, you won't get much support > > > > here for what you are trying to do here. > > > > > > > > We understand that you wish to make money, retain ownership and > > > > rights. There is still a way to do that without closing your source. > > > > Take the High Road and Find the Middle Ground. > > > > > > > > JIM > > > > > > > > Jason C. Miller wrote: > > > > > > > >> I would like to get some advice from all the smart folks out there. > > > >> > > > >> I was tasked to create a non-trivial application in an unbelievably > > > >> unreasonable amount of time. So, I basically just made a nice > > > >> front-end with a bunch of buttons (using Glade) and simply made > > > >> system() calls to external bash scripts for each button. Not my > > > >> favorite way of doing business, but, gotta do what ya gotta do. > > > >> Anyhoo, I will be making incremental releases of this software and > > > >> will be filling in the gaps as I go along. One problem is that it is > > > >> going to be a while before I have the time to implement all of the > > > >> button functions in C/C++. > > > >> My question to everyone is this... > > > >> For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does > > > >> anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in a > > > >> way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand the > > > >> logic that executes within them? > > > >> As an example, I considered writing the scripts in PERL and using > > > >> perlcc to compile the scripts into system binaries. This would allow > > > >> me to maintain the scripts for development but deploy them as > > > >> binaries for delivery. However, in the past, I haven't been very > > > >> pleased with the perl compiler and would be happy to avoid it. > > > >> > > > >> I don't have a very extensive history in subversive development > > > >> practices, so I was hoping that someone out there might have some > > > >> ideas. :) > > > >> > > > >> -jason > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > *************************************************** > > > My blog: http://millersplace.blogspot.com/ > > > *************************************************** > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > > Change your list subscription options: > > > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060311/e5fef0ed/attachment.html > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: shc_encrypting_shell_scripts.pdf > > Type: application/pdf > > Size: 4348 bytes > > Desc: not available > > Url : http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060311/e5fef0ed/attachment.pdf > > _______________________________________________ > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060313/88ce91c5/attachment.html From rmain at polaris.umuc.edu Tue Mar 14 13:35:11 2006 From: rmain at polaris.umuc.edu (Russ) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:35:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] [UM-LINUX] routers and Adelphia NOT! Verizon (fwd) Message-ID: Sincerely, Russ Main ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:31:56 -0500 From: Russ To: UM-LINUX at LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: [UM-LINUX] routers and Adelphia NOT! Verizon Hello, After several months of waiting for Verizon to be ready for FIOS or even DSL in my Frederick (YEE HAW!) neighborhood, I reluctantly gave up and signed up for cable through Adelphia. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on a cable/router box. I'm planning on using a Linksys WCG200. It has a cable input, 4 10/100's, 1 USB, and a wireless. This seems better than purchasing a cable modem separately. 120 total at newegg. I plan on having a home network with a laptop, and desktops(maybe a server). Sincerely, Russ Main From strredwolf at gmail.com Tue Mar 14 14:09:20 2006 From: strredwolf at gmail.com (Kelly Price) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:09:20 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [UM-LINUX] routers and Adelphia NOT! Verizon (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ff566830603141209m45031be4i6f6003e90520e002@mail.gmail.com> On 3/14/06, Russ wrote: > After several months of waiting for Verizon to be ready for FIOS or even > DSL in my Frederick (YEE HAW!) neighborhood, I reluctantly gave up and > signed up for cable through Adelphia. I'm wondering if anyone has any > advice on a cable/router box. I'm planning on using a Linksys WCG200. > It has a cable input, 4 10/100's, 1 USB, and a wireless. This seems > better than purchasing a cable modem separately. 120 total at newegg. > I plan on having a home network with a laptop, and desktops(maybe a > server). > I wouldn't. Adelphia will no doubtedly supply you with a tested cable modem, and have it already set up on their end. Plus, if the modem/router combo box breaks any function, you have to replace all of it. If it were up to me, I'd rent the modem and buy a Linksys WRT-54GL (4 Ethernet, Wireless, upstream to the modem and runs Linux itself) that can be reused when you change providers > Sincerely, > > Russ Main > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price http://strredwolf.furrynet.com From Mark.Allbritten at grace.com Tue Mar 14 14:21:09 2006 From: Mark.Allbritten at grace.com (Allbritten, Mark) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:21:09 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [UM-LINUX] routers and Adelphia NOT! Verizon (fwd) Message-ID: Hi Russ, I agree with Kelly. I'd keep them separate. Besides if you run a linksys wireless router you may want to run one of the hacked kernels (more TX power). You wouldn't be able to do that if it were you cable company (they can cut you off for life). Good Luck, Mark -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces at calug.com [mailto:lug-bounces at calug.com]On Behalf Of Kelly Price Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 3:09 PM To: Russ Cc: Columbia Area Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [CALUG] [UM-LINUX] routers and Adelphia NOT! Verizon (fwd) On 3/14/06, Russ wrote: > After several months of waiting for Verizon to be ready for FIOS or even > DSL in my Frederick (YEE HAW!) neighborhood, I reluctantly gave up and > signed up for cable through Adelphia. I'm wondering if anyone has any > advice on a cable/router box. I'm planning on using a Linksys WCG200. > It has a cable input, 4 10/100's, 1 USB, and a wireless. This seems > better than purchasing a cable modem separately. 120 total at newegg. > I plan on having a home network with a laptop, and desktops(maybe a > server). > I wouldn't. Adelphia will no doubtedly supply you with a tested cable modem, and have it already set up on their end. Plus, if the modem/router combo box breaks any function, you have to replace all of it. If it were up to me, I'd rent the modem and buy a Linksys WRT-54GL (4 Ethernet, Wireless, upstream to the modem and runs Linux itself) that can be reused when you change providers > Sincerely, > > Russ Main > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price http://strredwolf.furrynet.com _______________________________________________ Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com Email postings to: lug at calug.com Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug From pdragon at pdragon.net Tue Mar 14 19:02:21 2006 From: pdragon at pdragon.net (Keith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:02:21 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [UM-LINUX] routers and Adelphia NOT! Verizon (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2329fcf80603141702neb959c3j22fced964c7b8d72@mail.gmail.com> Or, if you are able to easily get a hold of old, inexpensive (or even free) computers, you can setup an IPCop box. I work at a computer support shop so I get people getting rid of old Pentium II and K6 systems all the time. They're perfect for things like this, though. And if you plan on doing any kind of file-sharing (Bittorrent), you're going to be extremely disappointed with any of the regular commercial routers out there (Linksys, Netgear, DLink, etc). They simply cannot handle the amount of connection attempts that P2P networks require over extended periods of time. They'll just completely freeze and drop all connections and you have to power-cycle them to restore your connection. If you want wireless, you will need to purchase an access point, but it's very easily configured. On 3/14/06, Allbritten, Mark wrote: > > Hi Russ, > > I agree with Kelly. I'd keep them separate. Besides if you run a linksys > wireless router you may want to run one of the hacked kernels (more TX > power). You wouldn't be able to do that if it were you cable company (they > can cut you off for life). > > Good Luck, > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-bounces at calug.com [mailto:lug-bounces at calug.com]On Behalf Of > Kelly Price > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 3:09 PM > To: Russ > Cc: Columbia Area Linux Users Group > Subject: Re: [CALUG] [UM-LINUX] routers and Adelphia NOT! Verizon (fwd) > > On 3/14/06, Russ wrote: > > After several months of waiting for Verizon to be ready for FIOS or even > > DSL in my Frederick (YEE HAW!) neighborhood, I reluctantly gave up and > > signed up for cable through Adelphia. I'm wondering if anyone has any > > advice on a cable/router box. I'm planning on using a Linksys WCG200. > > It has a cable input, 4 10/100's, 1 USB, and a wireless. This seems > > better than purchasing a cable modem separately. 120 total at newegg. > > I plan on having a home network with a laptop, and desktops(maybe a > > server). > > > > I wouldn't. Adelphia will no doubtedly supply you with a tested cable > modem, and have it already set up on their end. Plus, if the > modem/router combo box breaks any function, you have to replace all of > it. If it were up to me, I'd rent the modem and buy a Linksys > WRT-54GL (4 Ethernet, Wireless, upstream to the modem and runs Linux > itself) that can be reused when you change providers > > > Sincerely, > > > > Russ Main > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > -- > Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price > http://strredwolf.furrynet.com > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060314/d4aed9d5/attachment.html From strredwolf at gmail.com Tue Mar 14 19:19:42 2006 From: strredwolf at gmail.com (Kelly Price) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:19:42 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [UM-LINUX] routers and Adelphia NOT! Verizon (fwd) In-Reply-To: <2329fcf80603141702neb959c3j22fced964c7b8d72@mail.gmail.com> References: <2329fcf80603141702neb959c3j22fced964c7b8d72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ff566830603141719x1ff2a9d7w337acc97748e147b@mail.gmail.com> On 3/14/06, Keith wrote: > Or, if you are able to easily get a hold of old, inexpensive (or even free) > computers, you can setup an IPCop box. I work at a > computer support shop so I get people getting rid of old Pentium II and K6 > systems all the time. They're perfect for things like this, though. And if > you plan on doing any kind of file-sharing (Bittorrent), you're going to be > extremely disappointed with any of the regular commercial routers out there > (Linksys, Netgear, DLink, etc). They simply cannot handle the amount of > connection attempts that P2P networks require over extended periods of time. > They'll just completely freeze and drop all connections and you have to > power-cycle them to restore your connection. > I haven't had any problems with the Linux running WRT-54G v3 series, but the latest-54G's use a different OS now unless you use the GL version. For more control, though, a K6-2 box with two ethernet cards and a decent distro works. I did it with Slackware before I bought my Linksys box, even with wireless (HostAP driver). > If you want wireless, you will need to purchase an access point, but it's > very easily configured. > That reminds me. Anyone know if there's a Wifi-G card set that can be configured for Master mode? I know most Prism-II's for -B can use the HostAP driver, which is what I used for the K6-2 firewall. -- Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price http://strredwolf.furrynet.com From opn.src.rocks at gmail.com Thu Mar 16 13:14:30 2006 From: opn.src.rocks at gmail.com (Rajiv Gunja) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:14:30 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Day-light savings time 2007 Message-ID: Has anyone or your company/institute, taken/started any action against the day-light savings time of 2007? What are the changes on the linux server end, please shed light / share your knowledge. Thanks -GGR --- Rajiv G Gunja System Analyst / Engg SUN / AIX / HPUX / Linux Admin IM: AOL / Yahoo / MSN : ggvrsn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060316/b5cb1d12/attachment.html From jszakmeister-calug at intelesyscorp.com Thu Mar 16 15:45:31 2006 From: jszakmeister-calug at intelesyscorp.com (John Szakmeister) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:45:31 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp Message-ID: Hello all, I've been lurking on this list for quite some time (as john at szakmeister.net), so I know there is a lot of knowledgeable and intelligent people listening. :-) I work for a small locally owned business (located in Elkridge, MD) named Intelesys Corp. We've grown a need for a TS/SI cleared person to help manage both our classified and unclassified networks. We currently operate in a mixed environment of Linux and Windows, with Linux being the primary server backend and Windows providing domain services. Responsibilities include implementing new security features, auditing, setting up new services and systems, implementing simple web applications as necessary, implementing backup strategies, and guiding the future direction and implementation of both networks. Requirements for the position are: * You must be TS//SI cleared with a full-scope polygraph and be a US citizen. * Must have a basic working knowledge of networking and network configurations. * Knowledge of Windows 2000 and 2003 Active Directory implementations is preferable. * Experience with Linux is preferable, but not necessary. * Some experience with web development or common scripting languages, such as Perl and/or Python, is preferable. We're looking for someone who is motivated, and willing to jump in and help out with a variety of tasks. If this sounds like a position that interests you, please email me at jszakmeister at intelesyscorp.com, and we'll set up a time and place to meet to talk about the position further. Also, feel free to check out our website (http://www.intelesyscorp.com) for some information about the company. Thanks for listening and I hope to hear from some of you! -John From jeremyp at pobox.com Thu Mar 16 16:22:34 2006 From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:22:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] Day-light savings time 2007 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Rajiv Gunja wrote: > Has anyone or your company/institute, taken/started any action against the > day-light savings time of 2007? What do you mean by "action against" ? What specifically would you be expecting to do? > What are the changes on the linux server end, please shed light / share your > knowledge. I would assume that if you keep your server up to date, distributions will provide updated libraries that provide the correct timezone information. There shouldn't be anything needed other than making sure you have the latest packages. For example, for RHEL 4.0, observe the following: 1) Determine the package name that contains timezone information: $ rpm -qf /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York tzdata-2005m-1.EL4 2) Check the changelog for this package: $ rpm -q tzdata-2005m-1.EL4 --changelog|head * Tue Sep 06 2005 Jakub Jelinek 2005m-1.EL4 - 2005m - changes for USA (extending DST by 4 weeks since 2007), Tunisia, Australia, Kazakhstan - historical timezone data changes for Japan, Poland, Northern Ireland and Mali - timezone name change for East Timor As you can see, this package has been properly updated with the 2007 DST changes. I'm sure other distributions have made appropriate updates as well. Regards, Jeremy Portzer, RHCE -- /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp at pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Thu Mar 16 20:48:38 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:48:38 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] What would YOU do? In-Reply-To: <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> References: <44122127.9010808@Comcast.NET> <441248FC.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <441A2386.3030503@Comcast.NET> Jason C. Miller wrote: > With all due respect, I can tell that you probably don't operate under > the same business models that we (my company and I) do. As mentioned elsewhere, and previously by myself, you're not likely to get much sympathy from us. However, rather than drive you and your company towards more closed-source approaches, it may be worthwhile keeping this dialog open in order to find some middle ground. > In our > business, Don't be coy, state what your business is. Give us your company URL if you can. > ... it's about value-added software and often the need to deploy > rapidly prototyped applications that are well in the infancy of their > life cycles. Anyone who's ever gone head-to-head with another company > to win a contract based solely on your ability to out-innovate your > competition (and quickly) would understand that. No quibble with that. > Allowing access to our software by these competitors with blatantly open > scripts is unacceptable, at best. This is the part that I don't understand. Why must your code, either binary or source, be visible or available to your competitors? Your solutions and their should ideally be hosted on different computers. If that can't be done, your code should be stored under your home directory which is unreadable by your competitors and vice versa. > I'm really going to try to avoid going into the ages-old rhetoric of > open and closed source software. This is also hardly a contractual > issue. I would love to see someone tell Microsoft...."Sure....beat > everyone to market with your innovations and make sure that you have a > great EULA to blanket your yet-to-be-secured source because that will > DEFINATELY keep any drooling competitors from being influenced by your > problem solving and coding methods". Agreed, I think we all know the arguments. > I'm just a grunt engineer. I hate dealing with money and I hate dealing > with managment and contractual issues even more. I simply wanted to ask > some seasoned geeks how they would go about protecting the privacy of > their work until their projects became a little more mature and secure. > I most certainly am not advocating closed source software or even the > proprietarization (is that a real word??) of any open source software. One possible thing you could do is generate a sed script to run your perl code thru. It would simply replace all your variable names with names like "___o0_Oo_", rendering the source incomprehensible to humans. Running thru the "fmt" program to densely pack the tokens (however, watch out for what it might do to string constants, you don't want newlines inserted) will also help. > I mean, things like iptables/ipchains is open source, yet there are > probably plenty of people out there that wouldn't share their firewall > rules with ANYBODY because maybe they have a particular way of doing > things that they think brings value to them. Same concept! Yes, but a stupid one. One should be willing to publish their firewall rules in the newspaper For All To See. If they are Correct, well, No Harm Done, and if Incorrect, well, you will Find Out Quicker. > There's > also openssh. You can use that to secure everything but the kitchen > sink. Just because you're securing your stuff doesn't mean you're > wanting to close-source everything. > > My question is a technical one...pure and simple. I've got some stuff > that I want to keep prying eyes away from. When I want good insight from > some good professionals on how to get things done, I typically come here > first (well...after Google). I seriously doubt that telling a lawyer > "They stole lines from my script!!" is the solution to my problem. Well, as we have been telling you, IT IS! Do you remember when you were a kid and you heard the maxim that "when you cheat, you only cheat yourself?" That still applies. The kind of company and people that resort to stealing other people's code will never be the ones with the technical savvy to write the best code in the first place! Put another way, if you are good enoough to win on your own merits, it won't matter if your competitors copy what you do! When you run a race, you don't look at your competitors; you look at the finish line! Finally, if you have a warped send of humor, put a bunch of buggy code where people can snoop at it :) > Anyway...for anyone out there who's interested. I'm currently looking > at the Solaris 'crypt' utility. Hopefully that'll bring me down some > good roads. :) IIRC, the sun crypt program just applies DES, a key, and a salt to the content. It has been broken, but it's probably good enough for your applications. One problem that you are going to have is that of embedding the key into your programs and keeping the key hidden! Your Turn. JIM > > > -j > > James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > >> Don't confuse Ownership with Visibility. You can still write contracts >> and restrict usage and distribution even tho the source code is >> available. Your attempt to hide it only does the following: [1] delays >> your development time while you work out a solution [2] further delays >> your development while you debug the mess. [3] delays the finish >> product while the finished product runs [4] pisses off your customers >> and everyone who hears about it because you are assuming that they >> will steal it if you don't hide it. >> >> Given that Linux is Open Source Software, you won't get much support >> here for what you are trying to do here. >> >> We understand that you wish to make money, retain ownership and >> rights. There is still a way to do that without closing your source. >> Take the High Road and Find the Middle Ground. >> >> JIM >> >> Jason C. Miller wrote: >> >>> I would like to get some advice from all the smart folks out there. >>> >>> I was tasked to create a non-trivial application in an unbelievably >>> unreasonable amount of time. So, I basically just made a nice >>> front-end with a bunch of buttons (using Glade) and simply made >>> system() calls to external bash scripts for each button. Not my >>> favorite way of doing business, but, gotta do what ya gotta do. >>> Anyhoo, I will be making incremental releases of this software and >>> will be filling in the gaps as I go along. One problem is that it is >>> going to be a while before I have the time to implement all of the >>> button functions in C/C++. My question to everyone is this... >>> For the sake of trying to keep code proprietary in the interim , does >>> anybody have any ideas as to how one could maintain the scripts in a >>> way that would make it difficult for someone else to understand the >>> logic that executes within them? As an example, I considered writing >>> the scripts in PERL and using perlcc to compile the scripts into >>> system binaries. This would allow me to maintain the scripts for >>> development but deploy them as binaries for delivery. However, in the >>> past, I haven't been very pleased with the perl compiler and would be >>> happy to avoid it. >>> >>> I don't have a very extensive history in subversive development >>> practices, so I was hoping that someone out there might have some >>> ideas. :) >>> >>> -jason >>> >>> >>> > > From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Thu Mar 16 20:57:28 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:57:28 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <441A2598.9050500@Comcast.NET> Yeah, right! Like there are actually TS/SI cleared people out there without jobs. Any company doing cleared word had better be willing to clear everybody. Otherwise, that company is not qualified to be doing cleared work. Finding someone who already has a clearance is just gravy. You cannot expect it. Otherwise, there will be no people left with clearances. Companies who will not spend the time, effort, and money to clear people are just Stealing from the companies that are willing to do it. Yes, we all know that it takes lots of time, money and effort to clear someone. This is why traditionally only the bigger companies could afford to do it, or they had non-cleared contracts as well. JIM John Szakmeister wrote: > Hello all, > > I've been lurking on this list for quite some time (as > john at szakmeister.net), so I know there is a lot of knowledgeable and > intelligent people listening. :-) > > I work for a small locally owned business (located in Elkridge, MD) > named Intelesys Corp. We've grown a need for a TS/SI cleared person > to help manage both our classified and unclassified networks. We > currently operate in a mixed environment of Linux and Windows, with > Linux being the primary server backend and Windows providing domain > services. > > Responsibilities include implementing new security features, > auditing, setting up new services and systems, implementing simple > web applications as necessary, implementing backup strategies, and > guiding the future direction and implementation of both networks. > > Requirements for the position are: > * You must be TS//SI cleared with a full-scope polygraph and be a > US citizen. > * Must have a basic working knowledge of networking and network > configurations. > * Knowledge of Windows 2000 and 2003 Active Directory > implementations is preferable. > * Experience with Linux is preferable, but not necessary. > * Some experience with web development or common scripting > languages, such as Perl and/or Python, is preferable. > > We're looking for someone who is motivated, and willing to jump in > and help out with a variety of tasks. If this sounds like a position > that interests you, please email me at > jszakmeister at intelesyscorp.com, and we'll set up a time and place to > meet to talk about the position further. Also, feel free to check > out our website (http://www.intelesyscorp.com) for some information > about the company. > > Thanks for listening and I hope to hear from some of you! > > -John > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Thu Mar 16 21:48:51 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:48:51 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <440ED647.2060902@aol.com> References: <20060307174642.67492.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> <0FB0B7B9-75E0-45AC-8667-31EA8A320582@comcast.net> <440ED647.2060902@aol.com> Message-ID: <441A31A3.2020300@Comcast.NET> Well, some of that "unmovable" stuff may be the swap file, or other things that Windows has decided that it needs for this session. Rebooting oftwn helps. You may also be able to run without a swap file, delete the "pagefile.sys", and defrag it better in the susequent reboot. But what you REALLY want is Partition Magic, which will resize your partitions for you. It also comes with Boot Magic, which you can use as a boot manager for everything else. I have heard that the Linux "parted" command will resize NTFS partitions as well. JIM John Alan Hastings wrote: >>>>I am saving up to buy a laptop. I want to use Linux as my primary >>>>OS. >> > > * * snip * * > > >> >>Oh, and why not just keep that Windows partition on your OEM >>hardware? I am now looking for a new laptop, because all the >>distance learning delivery vehicles for IT grad degrees seem to work >>properly only in Windows using IE. Go figure. By the way, I would >>be happy to receive some feedback from the group on how wrong I am >>about that last bit. I really would prefer to use my PowerBook for >>school instead of investing in more hardware. > > > Keeping a Windows partition is a good idea, however, repartition > your disk as early in the life of the system as you can. I had the > bright idea of repartitioning a reasonably old and well used Toshiba > and began by defragging it. When the defrag was over, I found that > NTFS had left a number of things it calls unmoveable blocks scattered > around on the disk, and of course there was not enough room between > them to install any reasonable Linux partitions. > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > From dododge at dododge.net Fri Mar 17 02:18:00 2006 From: dododge at dododge.net (Dave Dodge) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:18:00 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <441A31A3.2020300@Comcast.NET> References: <20060307174642.67492.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> <0FB0B7B9-75E0-45AC-8667-31EA8A320582@comcast.net> <440ED647.2060902@aol.com> <441A31A3.2020300@Comcast.NET> Message-ID: <20060317081800.GM3807@basmati> On Thu, Mar 16, 2006 at 10:48:51PM -0500, James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > I have heard that the Linux "parted" command will resize NTFS partitions > as well. Not according to thier filesystem chart: http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/ Also, if you're used to fdisk be warned that parted's interface and functionality is somewhat different and can easily give you fits. If it weren't for the fact that my IA-64 systems require parted for their GPT/EFI partitioning, I'd never touch it again. -Dave Dodge From jszakmeister-calug at intelesyscorp.com Fri Mar 17 04:52:20 2006 From: jszakmeister-calug at intelesyscorp.com (John Szakmeister) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:52:20 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp In-Reply-To: <441A2598.9050500@Comcast.NET> References: <441A2598.9050500@Comcast.NET> Message-ID: <441A94E4.2030700@intelesyscorp.com> James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > Yeah, right! Like there are actually TS/SI cleared people out there > without jobs. There are some out there who may not be happy with their current position. > > > Any company doing cleared word had better be willing to clear everybody. > Otherwise, that company is not qualified to be doing cleared work. That was useful. I'm glad you judged our company like that based off of one line in one job requirement that we have. :-/ We do clear people. However, for this job, we'd rather have someone *this year*. :-) You can't always predict a need in advance. Waiting a year for something you need today is just bad business sense. > Finding someone who already has a clearance is just gravy. You cannot > expect it. Otherwise, there will be no people left with clearances. ...which is the current situation. :-) We're always on the lookout for good people, whether they're cleared or not. > Companies who will not spend the time, effort, and money to clear people > are just Stealing from the companies that are willing to do it. > > Yes, we all know that it takes lots of time, money and effort to clear > someone. This is why traditionally only the bigger companies could > afford to do it, or they had non-cleared contracts as well. If a company had to clear every person themselves, then a small business could not exist. Also, dealing with government contracts is fundamentally different than dealing with commercial entities. A company geared towards doing commercial contracts--which they'd have to be in order to be competitive and still meet your requirement of clearing people themselves--would have to change their business model entirely to cope with the government (not an easy feat, and it's hard to be competitive if you have to incur all that overhead of changing business models). In the commercial world, you don't have to deal with fiscal years, and the fact that the budget doesn't get approved on time. And, you'd expect a commercial entity to be responsive when it comes to changing the terms of the agreement because their requirements have changed. The government doesn't operate nearly that efficiently. It's hard enough on small business without throwing the fact that we need to clear every person ourselves as a requirement on top of everything else. I'll submit that large companies put out a lot of requirements where they need someone already cleared. It's not like small businesses are the only ones in town hiring already cleared people. And from what I've seen, big business is just as likely to "Steal" people as anyone else. > Not everyone is out to be malicious. :-) I've grown tired of administering the networks myself, and I see plenty of opportunity for someone else to come in, help us out, and learn a lot of new stuff along the way. I'm not trying to commit theft, but rather offer an opportunity to someone interested in learning more about administration, Linux, networking and even web development, that a person wouldn't otherwise have. I can't say that there are too many companies out there in the cleared community who are willing to teach and train people, much less have opportunities that allow you to make use of the world's best OS: Linux. :-) Let's get back to the regularly scheduled program. :-) Speaking of which, I've just set up a couple of servers as a high-availability pair using heartbeat and drbd. Looking at the past events, no one has done such a talk... would people be interested in a talk on that? -John From janos at transquest.com Fri Mar 17 05:08:26 2006 From: janos at transquest.com (Janos Gaspar) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:08:26 -0800 Subject: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp References: <441A2598.9050500@Comcast.NET> <441A94E4.2030700@intelesyscorp.com> Message-ID: <004801c649b3$22a3eda0$6601a8c0@JanosG> John, I have to admire you for your defense of the flame. I'm with a defense contractor and we do a lot of work at the NSA and CIA clearance levels so TS/SCI is not a big deal to us. We also clear people, although we're a small company. It does involve cost and effort. And it is true that programs out there are not willing to wait a year for their resource to get through the clearance process. It's very difficult and most applicants understand and are actually grateful. They would get forgotten by the big contractors. Small businesses that do cleared work also take more care with their employees. Being in a small business and knowing what's involved in working with the department of defense and knowing the high-level of security we are dealing with and the end objectives, I can appreciate everything you've said and don't appreciate James' insinuations at all. But all in all, this is a good group of guys and gals on this list, even though James appears to be bitter towards you. Maybe you should suggest you talk about the cleared environment in relation to Linux and career development etc. at their next meeting? That would be interesting, don't you think? And by the way... there are plenty of cleared sys admins who are looking for work... just remember - they don't always get the best treatment at the big companies. If I can help, let me know. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Szakmeister" To: "James Ewing Cottrell 3rd" Cc: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:52 AM Subject: Re: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp > James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: >> Yeah, right! Like there are actually TS/SI cleared people out there >> without jobs. > > There are some out there who may not be happy with their current position. > >> >> >> Any company doing cleared word had better be willing to clear everybody. >> Otherwise, that company is not qualified to be doing cleared work. > > That was useful. I'm glad you judged our company like that based off of > one line in one job requirement that we have. :-/ We do clear people. > However, for this job, we'd rather have someone *this year*. :-) You > can't always predict a need in advance. Waiting a year for something > you need today is just bad business sense. > >> Finding someone who already has a clearance is just gravy. You cannot >> expect it. Otherwise, there will be no people left with clearances. > > ...which is the current situation. :-) We're always on the lookout for > good people, whether they're cleared or not. > >> Companies who will not spend the time, effort, and money to clear people >> are just Stealing from the companies that are willing to do it. >> >> Yes, we all know that it takes lots of time, money and effort to clear >> someone. This is why traditionally only the bigger companies could >> afford to do it, or they had non-cleared contracts as well. > > If a company had to clear every person themselves, then a small business > could not exist. Also, dealing with government contracts is > fundamentally different than dealing with commercial entities. A > company geared towards doing commercial contracts--which they'd have to > be in order to be competitive and still meet your requirement of > clearing people themselves--would have to change their business model > entirely to cope with the government (not an easy feat, and it's hard to > be competitive if you have to incur all that overhead of changing > business models). In the commercial world, you don't have to deal with > fiscal years, and the fact that the budget doesn't get approved on time. > And, you'd expect a commercial entity to be responsive when it comes to > changing the terms of the agreement because their requirements have > changed. The government doesn't operate nearly that efficiently. It's > hard enough on small business without throwing the fact that we need to > clear every person ourselves as a requirement on top of everything else. > > I'll submit that large companies put out a lot of requirements where > they need someone already cleared. It's not like small businesses are > the only ones in town hiring already cleared people. And from what I've > seen, big business is just as likely to "Steal" people as anyone else. > >> > > Not everyone is out to be malicious. :-) I've grown tired of > administering the networks myself, and I see plenty of opportunity for > someone else to come in, help us out, and learn a lot of new stuff along > the way. I'm not trying to commit theft, but rather offer an > opportunity to someone interested in learning more about administration, > Linux, networking and even web development, that a person wouldn't > otherwise have. I can't say that there are too many companies out there > in the cleared community who are willing to teach and train people, much > less have opportunities that allow you to make use of the world's best > OS: Linux. :-) > > Let's get back to the regularly scheduled program. :-) Speaking of > which, I've just set up a couple of servers as a high-availability pair > using heartbeat and drbd. Looking at the past events, no one has done > such a talk... would people be interested in a talk on that? > > -John > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Fri Mar 17 12:48:15 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:48:15 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp In-Reply-To: <441A94E4.2030700@intelesyscorp.com> References: <441A2598.9050500@Comcast.NET> <441A94E4.2030700@intelesyscorp.com> Message-ID: <441B046F.5020706@Comcast.NET> John Szakmeister wrote: > James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > >>Yeah, right! Like there are actually TS/SI cleared people out there >>without jobs. > > > There are some out there who may not be happy with their current position. Of course. But given that they can write their own ticket, they will get snapped up quickly. >> >> >>Any company doing cleared word had better be willing to clear everybody. >>Otherwise, that company is not qualified to be doing cleared work. > > That was useful. I'm glad you judged our company like that based off of > one line in one job requirement that we have. :-/ We do clear people. Good. Mostly. > However, for this job, we'd rather have someone *this year*. :-) You > can't always predict a need in advance. Waiting a year for something > you need today is just bad business sense. It makes bad business sense in the short term. It is up to your company to make it pay in the long term. If you can't get someone cleared in time, then your company is simply not qualified to bid on that contract. >>Finding someone who already has a clearance is just gravy. You cannot >>expect it. Otherwise, there will be no people left with clearances. > > ...which is the current situation. :-) We're always on the lookout for > good people, whether they're cleared or not. That's good to hear. And if they are not cleared, you >>Companies who will not spend the time, effort, and money to clear people >>are just Stealing from the companies that are willing to do it. >> >>Yes, we all know that it takes lots of time, money and effort to clear >>someone. This is why traditionally only the bigger companies could >>afford to do it, or they had non-cleared contracts as well. Thanks for echoing what I said. And those companies have their own tricks as well. While you are working on uncleared contract N, they submit you as a worker on cleared contract N+1, hoping that you will be available for cleared contract N+2. They try and get as many people in the pipeline as possible. > If a company had to clear every person themselves, then a small business > could not exist. No, a small business doing only cleared work could not exist. I have no problem with that. That is what I am saying, that a company has to be big enough or diverse enough to weather the delay in getting people cleared. > Also, dealing with government contracts is > fundamentally different than dealing with commercial entities. I'll accept that. > A > company geared towards doing commercial contracts--which they'd have to > be in order to be competitive and still meet your requirement of > clearing people themselves--would have to change their business model > entirely to cope with the government (not an easy feat, and it's hard to > be competitive if you have to incur all that overhead of changing > business models). Yes, they would. Or more likely, they would either have to have two separate business units of be able to switch gears when dealing with the different environments. In other words, you have to be either Big or Nimble. If you are neither one you are unqualified to do cleared work. > In the commercial world, you don't have to deal with > fiscal years, and the fact that the budget doesn't get approved on time. > And, you'd expect a commercial entity to be responsive when it comes to > changing the terms of the agreement because their requirements have > changed. The government doesn't operate nearly that efficiently. It's > hard enough on small business without throwing the fact that we need to > clear every person ourselves as a requirement on top of everything else. My point is that the system is Unsustainable if everybody expects to hire cleared people rather than clearing them themselves. That should be Obvious. My "requirement" that companies be ready to clear Everybody is overly severe, given that there is a certain amount of movement of cleared people between companies. Or maybe it's not. For every cleared person you gain from your competitors, one of your people leave and go to them, on the average. So the gain is largely an illusion. > I'll submit that large companies put out a lot of requirements where > they need someone already cleared. It's not like small businesses are > the only ones in town hiring already cleared people. And from what I've > seen, big business is just as likely to "Steal" people as anyone else. Yes, they are NOW. But that's not how it used to be. I optained a Top Secret clearance 1/2/79 which I held off and on until some time in 1984. While I was awaiting clearances, I did uncleared work. I am tired of having companies tell me that they won't hire me because they will have to start clearances at the beginning, and that they have no uncleared work to keep me busy. At least I *am* clearable! >> > > > Not everyone is out to be malicious. :-) I've grown tired of > administering the networks myself, and I see plenty of opportunity for > someone else to come in, help us out, and learn a lot of new stuff along > the way. I'm not trying to commit theft, but rather offer an > opportunity to someone interested in learning more about administration, > Linux, networking and even web development, that a person wouldn't > otherwise have. I can't say that there are too many companies out there > in the cleared community who are willing to teach and train people, much > less have opportunities that allow you to make use of the world's best > OS: Linux. :-) OK, fine. Stealing is such a harsh word. And your company does sound more enlightened than most. It's just the practice I hate, and your posting was just the one that I responded to. But you are still missing the point: [1] companies must be willing to clear Everyone who needs a clearance [2] companies must be willing to provide all necessary training The argument that people get trained and leave is bogus because people get trained elsewhere and come to you as well. It all evens out. The difference is that people can train themselves at home by reading books (and coding), but they can't clear themselves. > Let's get back to the regularly scheduled program. :-) Speaking of > which, I've just set up a couple of servers as a high-availability pair > using heartbeat and drbd. Looking at the past events, no one has done > such a talk... would people be interested in a talk on that? Yes, that would be good. > -John JIM From junekis at comcast.net Fri Mar 17 17:06:13 2006 From: junekis at comcast.net (junekis at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:06:13 +0000 Subject: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp Message-ID: <031720062306.5443.441B40E50005DEAC0000154322070209539C07050A029A06@comcast.net> I have a beef myself, but not with companies that hire "cleared" people. A clearance is a legitimate job skill requirement - like a degree. You wouldn't expect employers to get you a BS in Computer Science if you didn't know how to program just so you could be hired as a programmer. Or would you? No, my beef is with the whole concept of "cleared" people The clearance process focuses on screening out "sleeper" agents by making sure you didn't sneak into the country and assume someone elses ID. And incidentally they screen for commies, nuts and felons. But once a person is "cleared" there is little continued attention. Yet every major spy scandal in the last 40 years has involved employees who had compartmentalized clearances who simply were bribed to sell out. No one thought to question GS-13s driving mercedes and living in $2m homes because conspicuous consumption is a celebrated virtue in our society. The KBG never had any trouble discovering the technical details of our fighters or bombers - they just bough the plans. One begins to suspec that the *real* target of security clearances is the American public. DHS and the DoD classify programs primarily to keep the public from discovering how incompetently our defenses are managed, and especially how outrageously expensive all that custom-built but technically obsolete equipment is. Of all government agencies, the DHS got the lowest marks from the GAO on computer security last year, in spite of all those employee clearances. All they are hiding is their own mismanagement and malfeasance. IMHO of course... -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Janos Gaspar" > John, > > I have to admire you for your defense of the flame. I'm with a defense > contractor and we do a lot of work at the NSA and CIA clearance levels so > TS/SCI is not a big deal to us. We also clear people, although we're a > small company. It does involve cost and effort. And it is true that > programs out there are not willing to wait a year for their resource to get > through the clearance process. It's very difficult and most applicants > understand and are actually grateful. They would get forgotten by the big > contractors. Small businesses that do cleared work also take more care with > their employees. Being in a small business and knowing what's involved in > working with the department of defense and knowing the high-level of > security we are dealing with and the end objectives, I can appreciate > everything you've said and don't appreciate James' insinuations at all. But > all in all, this is a good group of guys and gals on this list, even though > James appears to be bitter towards you. Maybe you should suggest you talk > about the cleared environment in relation to Linux and career development > etc. at their next meeting? That would be interesting, don't you think? > > And by the way... there are plenty of cleared sys admins who are looking for > work... just remember - they don't always get the best treatment at the big > companies. If I can help, let me know. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Szakmeister" > To: "James Ewing Cottrell 3rd" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:52 AM > Subject: Re: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp > > > > James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > >> Yeah, right! Like there are actually TS/SI cleared people out there > >> without jobs. > > > > There are some out there who may not be happy with their current position. > > > >> > >> > >> Any company doing cleared word had better be willing to clear everybody. > >> Otherwise, that company is not qualified to be doing cleared work. > > > > That was useful. I'm glad you judged our company like that based off of > > one line in one job requirement that we have. :-/ We do clear people. > > However, for this job, we'd rather have someone *this year*. :-) You > > can't always predict a need in advance. Waiting a year for something > > you need today is just bad business sense. > > > >> Finding someone who already has a clearance is just gravy. You cannot > >> expect it. Otherwise, there will be no people left with clearances. > > > > ...which is the current situation. :-) We're always on the lookout for > > good people, whether they're cleared or not. > > > >> Companies who will not spend the time, effort, and money to clear people > >> are just Stealing from the companies that are willing to do it. > >> > >> Yes, we all know that it takes lots of time, money and effort to clear > >> someone. This is why traditionally only the bigger companies could > >> afford to do it, or they had non-cleared contracts as well. > > > > If a company had to clear every person themselves, then a small business > > could not exist. Also, dealing with government contracts is > > fundamentally different than dealing with commercial entities. A > > company geared towards doing commercial contracts--which they'd have to > > be in order to be competitive and still meet your requirement of > > clearing people themselves--would have to change their business model > > entirely to cope with the government (not an easy feat, and it's hard to > > be competitive if you have to incur all that overhead of changing > > business models). In the commercial world, you don't have to deal with > > fiscal years, and the fact that the budget doesn't get approved on time. > > And, you'd expect a commercial entity to be responsive when it comes to > > changing the terms of the agreement because their requirements have > > changed. The government doesn't operate nearly that efficiently. It's > > hard enough on small business without throwing the fact that we need to > > clear every person ourselves as a requirement on top of everything else. > > > > I'll submit that large companies put out a lot of requirements where > > they need someone already cleared. It's not like small businesses are > > the only ones in town hiring already cleared people. And from what I've > > seen, big business is just as likely to "Steal" people as anyone else. > > > >> > > > > Not everyone is out to be malicious. :-) I've grown tired of > > administering the networks myself, and I see plenty of opportunity for > > someone else to come in, help us out, and learn a lot of new stuff along > > the way. I'm not trying to commit theft, but rather offer an > > opportunity to someone interested in learning more about administration, > > Linux, networking and even web development, that a person wouldn't > > otherwise have. I can't say that there are too many companies out there > > in the cleared community who are willing to teach and train people, much > > less have opportunities that allow you to make use of the world's best > > OS: Linux. :-) > > > > Let's get back to the regularly scheduled program. :-) Speaking of > > which, I've just set up a couple of servers as a high-availability pair > > using heartbeat and drbd. Looking at the past events, no one has done > > such a talk... would people be interested in a talk on that? > > > > -John > > _______________________________________________ > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > Change your list subscription options: > > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Fri Mar 17 17:24:24 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:24:24 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp In-Reply-To: <004801c649b3$22a3eda0$6601a8c0@JanosG> References: <441A2598.9050500@Comcast.NET> <441A94E4.2030700@intelesyscorp.com> <004801c649b3$22a3eda0$6601a8c0@JanosG> Message-ID: <441B4528.4030502@Comcast.NET> My comments are a simple application of Kirchoff's laws (in this case, the ones applying to Current) to the supply and demand of cleared people. It is the responsibility of companies to clear people. It is not the responsibility of people to be cleared before being hired. I have heard that it is illegal to advertise a job where having a clearance is a requirement, but that you are allowed to required that people be clearable, and furthermore, to terminate employment should that not be the case. In practice, the distinction is rather subtle. Companies will do what they want anyway, and perhaps they are doing us a favor by being honest with us. Sometimes, killing hope completely is better than being strung along. I hold no bitterness towards John or his company. But the attitude that I have been running into, "we won't hire you without a clearance because it costs too much money" is untenable. It just won't work if everybody does it, and everybody seems to be doing it. I could also argue that clearances should Last Forever, and that ANY US Clearance (DOC, DOE, NASA, Military, whatever) be accepted as equivalent. For all the preaching about consolidating various security agencys, essentially nothing has been done! Of course, I am probably preaching to the choir here. I have 5 years at NIST and held a Top Secret clearance from 1979-1984, JEC Jr worked 30 years for the Navy (NSWC), JEC Sr was an Army doctor during WWII and later ran the VA hospital (McGuire) in Richmond, and I am related to Patrick Ewing and David Chadwell (like Ewing, a revolutionary war hero), so if the Government can trust anyone, it's our family, and they have already agreed to trust me! I don't mind them poking about in my business, that's their job, but for companies to shut me out of the process, well yeah, that leaves a bit of a bitter taste. But once again, it's not even bitterness that comes into play here. It's about too many companies trying to take the easy way out. And who gets screwed in the process? People. JIM Janos Gaspar wrote: > John, > > I have to admire you for your defense of the flame. I'm with a defense > contractor and we do a lot of work at the NSA and CIA clearance levels > so TS/SCI is not a big deal to us. We also clear people, although we're > a small company. It does involve cost and effort. And it is true that > programs out there are not willing to wait a year for their resource to > get through the clearance process. It's very difficult and most > applicants understand and are actually grateful. They would get > forgotten by the big contractors. Small businesses that do cleared work > also take more care with their employees. Being in a small business and > knowing what's involved in working with the department of defense and > knowing the high-level of security we are dealing with and the end > objectives, I can appreciate everything you've said and don't appreciate > James' insinuations at all. But all in all, this is a good group of > guys and gals on this list, even though James appears to be bitter > towards you. Maybe you should suggest you talk about the cleared > environment in relation to Linux and career development etc. at their > next meeting? That would be interesting, don't you think? > > And by the way... there are plenty of cleared sys admins who are looking > for work... just remember - they don't always get the best treatment at > the big companies. If I can help, let me know. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Szakmeister" > > To: "James Ewing Cottrell 3rd" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:52 AM > Subject: Re: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp > > >> James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: >> >>> Yeah, right! Like there are actually TS/SI cleared people out there >>> without jobs. >> >> >> There are some out there who may not be happy with their current >> position. >> >>> >>> >>> Any company doing cleared word had better be willing to clear everybody. >>> Otherwise, that company is not qualified to be doing cleared work. >> >> >> That was useful. I'm glad you judged our company like that based off of >> one line in one job requirement that we have. :-/ We do clear people. >> However, for this job, we'd rather have someone *this year*. :-) You >> can't always predict a need in advance. Waiting a year for something >> you need today is just bad business sense. >> >>> Finding someone who already has a clearance is just gravy. You cannot >>> expect it. Otherwise, there will be no people left with clearances. >> >> >> ...which is the current situation. :-) We're always on the lookout for >> good people, whether they're cleared or not. >> >>> Companies who will not spend the time, effort, and money to clear people >>> are just Stealing from the companies that are willing to do it. >>> >>> Yes, we all know that it takes lots of time, money and effort to clear >>> someone. This is why traditionally only the bigger companies could >>> afford to do it, or they had non-cleared contracts as well. >> >> >> If a company had to clear every person themselves, then a small business >> could not exist. Also, dealing with government contracts is >> fundamentally different than dealing with commercial entities. A >> company geared towards doing commercial contracts--which they'd have to >> be in order to be competitive and still meet your requirement of >> clearing people themselves--would have to change their business model >> entirely to cope with the government (not an easy feat, and it's hard to >> be competitive if you have to incur all that overhead of changing >> business models). In the commercial world, you don't have to deal with >> fiscal years, and the fact that the budget doesn't get approved on time. >> And, you'd expect a commercial entity to be responsive when it comes to >> changing the terms of the agreement because their requirements have >> changed. The government doesn't operate nearly that efficiently. It's >> hard enough on small business without throwing the fact that we need to >> clear every person ourselves as a requirement on top of everything else. >> >> I'll submit that large companies put out a lot of requirements where >> they need someone already cleared. It's not like small businesses are >> the only ones in town hiring already cleared people. And from what I've >> seen, big business is just as likely to "Steal" people as anyone else. >> >>> >> >> >> Not everyone is out to be malicious. :-) I've grown tired of >> administering the networks myself, and I see plenty of opportunity for >> someone else to come in, help us out, and learn a lot of new stuff along >> the way. I'm not trying to commit theft, but rather offer an >> opportunity to someone interested in learning more about administration, >> Linux, networking and even web development, that a person wouldn't >> otherwise have. I can't say that there are too many companies out there >> in the cleared community who are willing to teach and train people, much >> less have opportunities that allow you to make use of the world's best >> OS: Linux. :-) >> >> Let's get back to the regularly scheduled program. :-) Speaking of >> which, I've just set up a couple of servers as a high-availability pair >> using heartbeat and drbd. Looking at the past events, no one has done >> such a talk... would people be interested in a talk on that? >> >> -John >> _______________________________________________ >> Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list >> CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com >> Email postings to: lug at calug.com >> Change your list subscription options: >> http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug >> >> > > From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Sat Mar 18 01:05:22 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 02:05:22 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp In-Reply-To: <031720062306.5443.441B40E50005DEAC0000154322070209539C07050A029A06@comcast.net> References: <031720062306.5443.441B40E50005DEAC0000154322070209539C07050A029A06@comcast.net> Message-ID: <441BB132.3070903@Comcast.NET> junekis at comcast.net wrote: >I have a beef myself, but not with companies that hire "cleared" people. > >A clearance is a legitimate job skill requirement - like a degree. You wouldn't expect employers to get you a BS in Computer Science if you didn't know how to program just so you could be hired as a programmer. > Good in theory. But in practice, since one can not clear oneself, or even pay for the government to clear them, We are forced to go through companies to get cleared. >Or would you? > >No, my beef is with the whole concept of "cleared" people > >The clearance process focuses on screening out "sleeper" agents by making sure you didn't sneak into the country and assume someone elses ID. And incidentally they screen for commies, nuts and felons. > >But once a person is "cleared" there is little continued attention. > >Yet every major spy scandal in the last 40 years has involved employees who had compartmentalized clearances who simply were bribed to sell out. No one thought to question GS-13s driving mercedes and living in $2m homes because conspicuous consumption is a celebrated virtue in our society. > > Well, yeah, external security is relatively easy. It's a lot harder to watch the people you trust. >The KBG never had any trouble discovering the technical details of our fighters or bombers - they just bough the plans. > >One begins to suspec that the *real* target of security clearances is the American public. > > Interesting point. Yeah, the whole "war on terror" is pretty much the perpetual war described in Orwell's 1984. We're not really serious about homeland security, it's just an excuse to trample our rights via abominations like the Patriot Act. Orwell had "Goldberg" as the bogeyman. We have Osama. Well, he got the Semitic part right, even if used a Jew instead of an Arab. >DHS and the DoD classify programs primarily to keep the public from discovering how incompetently our defenses are managed, and especially how outrageously expensive all that custom-built but technically obsolete equipment is. > >Of all government agencies, the DHS got the lowest marks from the GAO on computer security last year, in spite of all those employee clearances. > > Well, one reason is because they use a lot of Windows stuff. >All they are hiding is their own mismanagement and malfeasance. >IMHO of course... > From eldonz at atlanticdb.com Sat Mar 18 06:12:46 2006 From: eldonz at atlanticdb.com (Eldon Ziegler) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:12:46 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> I need a local host name to IP address association to override that provided by DNS. However, after entering the new definition in /etc/hosts the "host" command still returns the IP address from DNS. I've tried in on Linux 2.6 (RedHat ES4) and 2.4 (RedHat 9.x). /etc/host.conf has "order hosts,bind". /etc/nsswitch.conf has "hosts: files dns". Does some service need to be restarted? How do I get /etc/hosts to override DNS? Thanks Eldon Ziegler From anderson.stephen at gmail.com Sat Mar 18 06:55:42 2006 From: anderson.stephen at gmail.com (Stephen Anderson) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:55:42 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] [JOB OPENING] System Administrator at Intelesys Corp In-Reply-To: <441BB132.3070903@Comcast.NET> References: <031720062306.5443.441B40E50005DEAC0000154322070209539C07050A029A06@comcast.net> <441BB132.3070903@Comcast.NET> Message-ID: <3fef98d60603180455i66fe6edfh29bfb4e05c35198b@mail.gmail.com> Please remove any further discussion along this thread off the LUG mailing list. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060318/ac896ec3/attachment.html From R.Overberg at ieee.org Sat Mar 18 10:10:04 2006 From: R.Overberg at ieee.org (Bob Overberg) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:10:04 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Linux Friendly Laptops In-Reply-To: <441A31A3.2020300@Comcast.NET> References: <20060307174642.67492.qmail@web53811.mail.yahoo.com> <0FB0B7B9-75E0-45AC-8667-31EA8A320582@comcast.net> <440ED647.2060902@aol.com> <441A31A3.2020300@Comcast.NET> Message-ID: <1142698205.14623.134.camel@rocket> There's an excellent FAQ on NTFS Resize (complete with the minimum ntfsresize version number you want to use and how that maps to various distributions) http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html I used a KNOPPIX Live CD and successfully resized an NTFS partition a few weeks ago. I used the Win2k defrag tool before shutting down and booting Knoppix. The few "unmovable" sectors in the middle of the partition must have been session-allocated swap, because Knoppix (running GUI front-end QTParted) had no problem shrinking the NTFS partition well beyond their location in the middle of the disk. After QTParted was done and committed to disk, I rebooted Win2k. It complained about needing to fsck, but beyond that, there were absolutely no problems upon subsequent reboots. hope this helps. Bob O. On Thu, 2006-03-16 at 22:48 -0500, James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote: > You may also be able to run without a swap file, > delete the "pagefile.sys", and defrag it better in the susequent > reboot. > > But what you REALLY want is Partition Magic, which will resize your > partitions for you. It also comes with Boot Magic, which you can use > as > a boot manager for everything else. > > I have heard that the Linux "parted" command will resize NTFS > partitions > as well. > From jfbauer at comcast.net Sat Mar 18 12:35:16 2006 From: jfbauer at comcast.net (Jim Bauer) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:35:16 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> Message-ID: <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> On Saturday 18 March 2006 07:12, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > I need a local host name to IP address association to override that > provided by DNS. However, after entering the new definition in > /etc/hosts the "host" command still returns the IP address from DNS. > I've tried in on Linux 2.6 (RedHat ES4) and 2.4 (RedHat 9.x). > > /etc/host.conf has "order hosts,bind". /etc/nsswitch.conf has "hosts: > files dns". Does some service need to be restarted? How do I get > /etc/hosts to override DNS? I am fairly certain the host command only does DNS lookups. So it'll never look in /etc/hosts. I think you really want to know what does the gethostbyname() library routine will return? Try this to find out (replacing 'foo' with what you want to lookup). perl -e '($x) = gethostbyname("foo"); print $x, "\n"' From jason.c.miller at gmail.com Sat Mar 18 12:58:14 2006 From: jason.c.miller at gmail.com (Jason C. Miller) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:58:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> Message-ID: The 'host' command is one of the replacements for 'nslookup'. According to the man page, it is a "DNS lookup utility". I doubt that you could override the DNS part of it. -jason On Sat, 18 Mar 2006, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > I need a local host name to IP address association to override that > provided by DNS. However, after entering the new definition in > /etc/hosts the "host" command still returns the IP address from DNS. > I've tried in on Linux 2.6 (RedHat ES4) and 2.4 (RedHat 9.x). > > /etc/host.conf has "order hosts,bind". /etc/nsswitch.conf has "hosts: > files dns". Does some service need to be restarted? How do I get > /etc/hosts to override DNS? > > Thanks > Eldon Ziegler > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- From eldonz39yid at yahoo.com Sat Mar 18 13:41:48 2006 From: eldonz39yid at yahoo.com (Eldon Ziegler) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:41:48 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318143547.078f3110@yahoo.com> The perl statement printed foo, not the IP address. You're right that what I want is some shell command ("host" or not) that will first look in /etc/hosts and then use DNS to find an IP address. At 01:35 pm 3/18/2006, Jim Bauer wrote: >On Saturday 18 March 2006 07:12, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > > I need a local host name to IP address association to override that > > provided by DNS. However, after entering the new definition in > > /etc/hosts the "host" command still returns the IP address from DNS. > > I've tried in on Linux 2.6 (RedHat ES4) and 2.4 (RedHat 9.x). > > > > /etc/host.conf has "order hosts,bind". /etc/nsswitch.conf has "hosts: > > files dns". Does some service need to be restarted? How do I get > > /etc/hosts to override DNS? > >I am fairly certain the host command only does DNS lookups. >So it'll never look in /etc/hosts. > >I think you really want to know what does the gethostbyname() library >routine will return? Try this to find out (replacing 'foo' with what >you want to lookup). > >perl -e '($x) = gethostbyname("foo"); print $x, "\n"' > >_______________________________________________ >Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list >CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com >Email postings to: lug at calug.com >Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug From jeremyp at pobox.com Sat Mar 18 15:47:26 2006 From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:47:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Mar 2006, Jim Bauer wrote: > On Saturday 18 March 2006 07:12, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > > I need a local host name to IP address association to override that > > provided by DNS. However, after entering the new definition in > > /etc/hosts the "host" command still returns the IP address from DNS. > > I've tried in on Linux 2.6 (RedHat ES4) and 2.4 (RedHat 9.x). > > > > /etc/host.conf has "order hosts,bind". /etc/nsswitch.conf has "hosts: > > files dns". Does some service need to be restarted? How do I get > > /etc/hosts to override DNS? > > I am fairly certain the host command only does DNS lookups. > So it'll never look in /etc/hosts. > > I think you really want to know what does the gethostbyname() library > routine will return? Try this to find out (replacing 'foo' with what > you want to lookup). > > perl -e '($x) = gethostbyname("foo"); print $x, "\n"' It's not quite that simple. gethostbyname() returns a list context with several different things, the first argument is the hostname, so the above simply returns whatever you give it. Check the perlfunc and gethostbyname() man pages for the full scoop. Here's a web site that explains how to do this properly in Perl using the Socket library: http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/perl/cookbook/ch18_02.htm However that doesn't answer the original question of a simple shell command to do a hostname lookup using the system resolver library. It seems like there ought to be an easy answer for this, but the only thing I can think of is to parse the output of "ping" which can be difficult. Here's one ugly attempt at this: ping -n -c 1 foo | head -n 1 | cut -d ' ' -f 3 | sed 's/[()]//g' If "foo" is an unknown host, ping writes that to standard error, so you have to be prepared to handle that too. --Jeremy -- /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp at pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ From jjsansing at comcast.net Sat Mar 18 16:21:21 2006 From: jjsansing at comcast.net (Jim Sansing) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:21:21 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318143547.078f3110@yahoo.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060318143547.078f3110@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <441C87E1.1060306@comcast.net> I haven't seen in this thread what you intend to use it for, so I don't know how much help this will be, but ping does what you want. If you just need a simple command line utility, you could get one response and cut the hostname: ping -c 1 -W 1 | cut -f2,3 -d' ' | head -1 If you need it in an application, grab the ping source code and see what they are doing (from the hosts man page, it looks like the resolver system call and I don't know if Perl has that function). Later . . . Jim Eldon Ziegler wrote: >The perl statement printed foo, not the IP address. You're right that >what I want is some shell command ("host" or not) that will first >look in /etc/hosts and then use DNS to find an IP address. > >At 01:35 pm 3/18/2006, Jim Bauer wrote: > >>On Saturday 18 March 2006 07:12, Eldon Ziegler wrote: >> >>>I need a local host name to IP address association to override that >>>provided by DNS. However, after entering the new definition in >>>/etc/hosts the "host" command still returns the IP address from DNS. >>>I've tried in on Linux 2.6 (RedHat ES4) and 2.4 (RedHat 9.x). >>> >>>/etc/host.conf has "order hosts,bind". /etc/nsswitch.conf has "hosts: >>>files dns". Does some service need to be restarted? How do I get >>>/etc/hosts to override DNS? >>> >>I am fairly certain the host command only does DNS lookups. >>So it'll never look in /etc/hosts. >> >>I think you really want to know what does the gethostbyname() library >>routine will return? Try this to find out (replacing 'foo' with what >>you want to lookup). >> >>perl -e '($x) = gethostbyname("foo"); print $x, "\n"' >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list >>CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com >>Email postings to: lug at calug.com >>Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug >> > >_______________________________________________ >Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list >CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com >Email postings to: lug at calug.com >Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > From opn.src.rocks at gmail.com Sun Mar 19 06:01:40 2006 From: opn.src.rocks at gmail.com (Rajiv Gunja) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 07:01:40 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: <441C87E1.1060306@comcast.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060318143547.078f3110@yahoo.com> <441C87E1.1060306@comcast.net> Message-ID: Aren't you missing or overlooking one key file which is used by host or nslookup or gethostbyname? /etc/nsswitch.conf. Yes define all your network hosts and their ip-addresses in /etc/hosts. Now edit your /etc/nsswitch.conf, the line which looks like this. hosts: files dns change it to : hosts: files Now no matter what command you do, all hosts will be resolved from your /etc/hosts and not the DNS. -GGR --- Rajiv G Gunja System Analyst / Engg SUN / AIX / HPUX / Linux Admin IM: AOL / Yahoo / MSN : ggvrsn On 3/18/06, Jim Sansing wrote: > > I haven't seen in this thread what you intend to use it for, so I > don't know how much help this will be, but ping does what you > want. If you just need a simple command line utility, you could > get one response and cut the hostname: > > ping -c 1 -W 1 | cut -f2,3 -d' ' | head -1 > > If you need it in an application, grab the ping source code and > see what they are doing (from the hosts man page, it looks like > the resolver system call and I don't know if Perl has that function). > > Later . . . Jim > > > Eldon Ziegler wrote: > >The perl statement printed foo, not the IP address. You're right that > >what I want is some shell command ("host" or not) that will first > >look in /etc/hosts and then use DNS to find an IP address. > > > >At 01:35 pm 3/18/2006, Jim Bauer wrote: > > > >>On Saturday 18 March 2006 07:12, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > >> > >>>I need a local host name to IP address association to override that > >>>provided by DNS. However, after entering the new definition in > >>>/etc/hosts the "host" command still returns the IP address from DNS. > >>>I've tried in on Linux 2.6 (RedHat ES4) and 2.4 (RedHat 9.x). > >>> > >>>/etc/host.conf has "order hosts,bind". /etc/nsswitch.conf has "hosts: > >>>files dns". Does some service need to be restarted? How do I get > >>>/etc/hosts to override DNS? > >>> > >>I am fairly certain the host command only does DNS lookups. > >>So it'll never look in /etc/hosts. > >> > >>I think you really want to know what does the gethostbyname() library > >>routine will return? Try this to find out (replacing 'foo' with what > >>you want to lookup). > >> > >>perl -e '($x) = gethostbyname("foo"); print $x, "\n"' > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > >>CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > >>Email postings to: lug at calug.com > >>Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > >CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > >Email postings to: lug at calug.com > >Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060319/9f968403/attachment.html From eldonz39yid at yahoo.com Sun Mar 19 06:37:54 2006 From: eldonz39yid at yahoo.com (Eldon Ziegler) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 07:37:54 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060319072058.078e9c50@yahoo.com> In looking for a command to use in a shell script that would first search /etc/hosts and then DNS I didn't want to reinvent the wheel but, in this case, there doesn't seem to be a wheel so I wrote a C routine to printf the result of gethostbyname () which seems to do the search in the order I want. I haven't been able to find a case in which /etc/host.conf affects the search order of gethostbyname. I tried "order hosts,bind" and "order bind,hosts" and even "order bind" but gethostbyname returned the IP address in /etc/hosts in every case. For me that's fine but I don't see how that behavior matches the description in the man page for host.conf. An then there is nsswitch.conf? At 04:47 pm 3/18/2006, Jeremy Portzer wrote: >On Sat, 18 Mar 2006, Jim Bauer wrote: > > > On Saturday 18 March 2006 07:12, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > > > I need a local host name to IP address association to override that > > > provided by DNS. However, after entering the new definition in > > > /etc/hosts the "host" command still returns the IP address from DNS. > > > I've tried in on Linux 2.6 (RedHat ES4) and 2.4 (RedHat 9.x). > > > > > > /etc/host.conf has "order hosts,bind". /etc/nsswitch.conf has "hosts: > > > files dns". Does some service need to be restarted? How do I get > > > /etc/hosts to override DNS? > > > > I am fairly certain the host command only does DNS lookups. > > So it'll never look in /etc/hosts. > > > > I think you really want to know what does the gethostbyname() library > > routine will return? Try this to find out (replacing 'foo' with what > > you want to lookup). > > > > perl -e '($x) = gethostbyname("foo"); print $x, "\n"' > > >It's not quite that simple. gethostbyname() returns a list context with >several different things, the first argument is the hostname, so the above >simply returns whatever you give it. Check the perlfunc and >gethostbyname() man pages for the full scoop. > >Here's a web site that explains how to do this properly in Perl using the >Socket library: > >http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/perl/cookbook/ch18_02.htm > >However that doesn't answer the original question of a simple shell >command to do a hostname lookup using the system resolver library. It >seems like there ought to be an easy answer for this, but the only thing I >can think of is to parse the output of "ping" which can be difficult. > >Here's one ugly attempt at this: > >ping -n -c 1 foo | head -n 1 | cut -d ' ' -f 3 | sed 's/[()]//g' > >If "foo" is an unknown host, ping writes that to standard error, so you >have to be prepared to handle that too. > >--Jeremy > >-- >/---------------------------------------------------------------------\ >| Jeremy Portzer jeremyp at pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | >| GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | >\---------------------------------------------------------------------/ >_______________________________________________ >Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list >CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com >Email postings to: lug at calug.com >Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug From opn.src.rocks at gmail.com Sun Mar 19 07:03:11 2006 From: opn.src.rocks at gmail.com (Rajiv Gunja) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:03:11 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060319072058.078e9c50@yahoo.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060319072058.078e9c50@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yup, nsswitch.conf does exactly that. It instructs the OS and all its commands/system calls to a certain order, when it comes to looking up the network or any such protocol, which needs to leave/cannot find on the local host. I am surprised that people would write scripts first before looking at this file which pretty much does what they wanted/needed. hmm ...... -GGR --- Rajiv G Gunja System Analyst / Engg SUN / AIX / HPUX / Linux Admin IM: AOL / Yahoo / MSN : ggvrsn On 3/19/06, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > > In looking for a command to use in a shell script that would first > search /etc/hosts and then DNS I didn't want to reinvent the wheel > but, in this case, there doesn't seem to be a wheel so I wrote a C > routine to printf the result of gethostbyname () which seems to do > the search in the order I want. > > I haven't been able to find a case in which /etc/host.conf affects > the search order of gethostbyname. I tried "order hosts,bind" and > "order bind,hosts" and even "order bind" but gethostbyname returned > the IP address in /etc/hosts in every case. For me that's fine but I > don't see how that behavior matches the description in the man page > for host.conf. An then there is nsswitch.conf? > > At 04:47 pm 3/18/2006, Jeremy Portzer wrote: > >On Sat, 18 Mar 2006, Jim Bauer wrote: > > > > > On Saturday 18 March 2006 07:12, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > > > > I need a local host name to IP address association to override that > > > > provided by DNS. However, after entering the new definition in > > > > /etc/hosts the "host" command still returns the IP address from DNS. > > > > I've tried in on Linux 2.6 (RedHat ES4) and 2.4 (RedHat 9.x). > > > > > > > > /etc/host.conf has "order hosts,bind". /etc/nsswitch.conf has > "hosts: > > > > files dns". Does some service need to be restarted? How do I get > > > > /etc/hosts to override DNS? > > > > > > I am fairly certain the host command only does DNS lookups. > > > So it'll never look in /etc/hosts. > > > > > > I think you really want to know what does the gethostbyname() library > > > routine will return? Try this to find out (replacing 'foo' with what > > > you want to lookup). > > > > > > perl -e '($x) = gethostbyname("foo"); print $x, "\n"' > > > > > >It's not quite that simple. gethostbyname() returns a list context with > >several different things, the first argument is the hostname, so the > above > >simply returns whatever you give it. Check the perlfunc and > >gethostbyname() man pages for the full scoop. > > > >Here's a web site that explains how to do this properly in Perl using the > >Socket library: > > > >http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/perl/cookbook/ch18_02.htm > > > >However that doesn't answer the original question of a simple shell > >command to do a hostname lookup using the system resolver library. It > >seems like there ought to be an easy answer for this, but the only thing > I > >can think of is to parse the output of "ping" which can be difficult. > > > >Here's one ugly attempt at this: > > > >ping -n -c 1 foo | head -n 1 | cut -d ' ' -f 3 | sed 's/[()]//g' > > > >If "foo" is an unknown host, ping writes that to standard error, so you > >have to be prepared to handle that too. > > > >--Jeremy > > > >-- > >/---------------------------------------------------------------------\ > >| Jeremy Portzer jeremyp at pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | > >| GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | > >\---------------------------------------------------------------------/ > >_______________________________________________ > >Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > >CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > >Email postings to: lug at calug.com > >Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060319/c4c93440/attachment.html From jce at zot.com Sun Mar 19 11:03:28 2006 From: jce at zot.com (Chris Edillon) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:03:28 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060319072058.078e9c50@yahoo.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060319072058.078e9c50@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1142787808.13196.1.camel@ruthless> On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 07:37 -0500, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > In looking for a command to use in a shell script that would first > search /etc/hosts and then DNS I didn't want to reinvent the wheel > but, in this case, there doesn't seem to be a wheel so I wrote a C > routine to printf the result of gethostbyname () which seems to do > the search in the order I want. > the getent command will do what you want, it's a program which does various get* routine lookups: getent hosts foo.bar.com getent passwd username getent group groupname etc. chris From eldonz39yid at yahoo.com Sun Mar 19 12:26:04 2006 From: eldonz39yid at yahoo.com (Eldon Ziegler) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:26:04 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: <1142787808.13196.1.camel@ruthless> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060319072058.078e9c50@yahoo.com> <1142787808.13196.1.camel@ruthless> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060319132518.04887ec0@yahoo.com> Thanks. Looks like it does the job. I hadn't run across it before. At 12:03 pm 3/19/2006, Chris Edillon wrote: >On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 07:37 -0500, Eldon Ziegler wrote: > > > In looking for a command to use in a shell script that would first > > search /etc/hosts and then DNS I didn't want to reinvent the wheel > > but, in this case, there doesn't seem to be a wheel so I wrote a C > > routine to printf the result of gethostbyname () which seems to do > > the search in the order I want. > > > the getent command will do what you want, it's a program which >does various get* routine lookups: > >getent hosts foo.bar.com >getent passwd username >getent group groupname >etc. > >chris > >_______________________________________________ >Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list >CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com >Email postings to: lug at calug.com >Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug From jeremyp at pobox.com Sun Mar 19 14:54:39 2006 From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:54:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: <1142787808.13196.1.camel@ruthless> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060319072058.078e9c50@yahoo.com> <1142787808.13196.1.camel@ruthless> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Mar 2006, Chris Edillon wrote: > the getent command will do what you want, it's a program which > does various get* routine lookups: > > getent hosts foo.bar.com > getent passwd username > getent group groupname > etc. Awesome Chris. That's exactly what we're all looking for. getent is provided by the glibc package on my system, so that indicates this ought to be a widespread command available on almost every system, which fits the bill for a portable shell script. Thanks. Jeremy Portzer -- /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Jeremy Portzer jeremyp at pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy | | GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ From rmain at polaris.umuc.edu Sun Mar 19 18:50:49 2006 From: rmain at polaris.umuc.edu (Russ) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:50:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] Router Message-ID: Hello, Thanks for the input on the router. In case anyone is in the market for the Linksys WRT54G, I found it at Best Buy for 49.99. It was 56 at newegg, 69 at CompUSA and 69 at aonther store. Thanks, Russ M From dlg at dorkzilla.org Sun Mar 19 21:59:18 2006 From: dlg at dorkzilla.org (david l goodrich) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:59:18 -0600 Subject: [CALUG] /etc/hosts not used? In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318070612.078f73d8@atlanticdb.com> <200603181335.16935.jfbauer@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060319072058.078e9c50@yahoo.com> <1142787808.13196.1.camel@ruthless> Message-ID: <441E2896.3020408@dorkzilla.org> Jeremy Portzer wrote: > On Sun, 19 Mar 2006, Chris Edillon wrote: > >> the getent command will do what you want, it's a program which >> does various get* routine lookups: >> >> getent hosts foo.bar.com >> getent passwd username >> getent group groupname >> etc. > > Awesome Chris. That's exactly what we're all looking for. > > getent is provided by the glibc package on my system, so that indicates > this ought to be a widespread command available on almost every system, > which fits the bill for a portable shell script. assuming you're porting your script only to linux. it doesn't work on netbsd, openbsd, or OS X. dlg at fawkes:~$ uname -mrs NetBSD 2.0.2 i386 dlg at fawkes:~$ getent bash: getent: command not found dlg at fawkes:~$ [dlg at neptune /home/dlg]$ uname -mrs OpenBSD 3.8 sgi [dlg at neptune /home/dlg]$ getent ksh: getent: not found [dlg at neptune /home/dlg]$ dlg at elektra:~$ uname -mrs Darwin 8.5.0 Power Macintosh dlg at elektra:~$ getent -bash: getent: command not found dlg at elektra:~$ i don't have access to a freeBSD machine, but it doesn't seem hopeful: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=getent [snip] Sorry, no data found for `getent'. You may look for other FreeBSD Search Services. [snip] oh, scratch the "just linux" part. solaris seems okay. dlg at bigmac:~$ uname -mrs SunOS 5.10 sun4u dlg at bigmac:~$ getent hosts example.com 192.0.34.166 example.com dlg at bigmac:~$ just as a heads-up. --david > > Thanks. > > Jeremy Portzer > From dragineez at yahoo.com Mon Mar 20 13:04:29 2006 From: dragineez at yahoo.com (Tom Berlett) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:04:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CALUG] Self Inflicted Wound Message-ID: <20060320190429.32956.qmail@web50208.mail.yahoo.com> I've become enamored with the forthcoming Xgl display technology. Following the instructions to install Compiz at http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?src=rss&id=916, there came a point where dire warnings were issued that I was about to get rid of my karefully krafted kustom kernel. In fear of the consequences, I aborted. Apparently, not soon enough. I guess enough of Dapper came over that my system is - no more. The machine has become basically unbootable. It drops out into some sort of very limited emergency shell. Error Message: Unable to find volume group "Ubuntu" ALERT! /dev/mapper/Ubuntu-root does not exist! Dropping to a shell! Busy Box v1.01 (Debian 1:1.01-4Ubuntu1) Built-in shell (ash) Does anyone have any ideas on how to recover from this? I'm not necessarily even interested in recovering the machine to its former state. I've installed ubuntu about 30 times now - 31 shouldn't be any problem. But there are a few files on there that I'd like to get off before I do. I booted using a FC4 Rescue CD to boot which successfully mounted the logical volumes. I'm working through how to mount an NFS share so I can copy off what I want to save. I've followed the NFS tutorial at http://nfs.sourceforge.net/nfs-howto/ but can't mount the share. I get "connection refused". Trying to run rpcinfo -p on the server also returns "connection refused". exports /media/hdc1/Elrond 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0(rw) hosts.allow portmap: 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0 hosts.deny portmap:ALL sudo exportsfs -av seems to return intelligible results. mount -t nfs 192.168.1.17:/Elrond /mnt/sysimage/oshit returns "connection refused" In a different, but somewhat related question - since it seems there is nothing wrong with the box or the drive, would it be possible to resuscitate the machine? Either roll back to before the botched Dapper install, or continue the distro-upgrade from where it left off? Answer both, or neither, or ignore as you see fit, but..... OK, what am I doing wrong? Total newbie here, so use small words and short sentences. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Mon Mar 20 13:20:31 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:20:31 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Self Inflicted Wound In-Reply-To: <20060320190429.32956.qmail@web50208.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060320190429.32956.qmail@web50208.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <441F007F.5010804@Comcast.NET> I don't think that you need to copy anything at all "off" your machine. [1] boot a rescue Linux off a CD [2] mount /dev/whatever /hosed [3] cd /hosed; mkdir hosed; mv * .??* hosed [4] reboot CD into install mode [5] install to /dev/whatever but *without formatting* [6] Put Humpty Dumpty back together again Besides, if you want to save files, do it to another partition! Or to your second (or a USB) disk. Tapes are too expensive and slow, CDs and DVDs are to small (also slow). The only kind of backup that makes any sense is another disk. JIM Tom Berlett wrote: > I've become enamored with the forthcoming Xgl display > technology. Following the instructions to install > Compiz at > http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?src=rss&id=916, > there came a point where dire warnings were issued > that I was about to get rid of my karefully krafted > kustom kernel. In fear of the consequences, I aborted. > Apparently, not soon enough. I guess enough of Dapper > came over that my system is - no more. The machine has > become basically unbootable. It drops out into some > sort of very limited emergency shell. > > Error Message: > Unable to find volume group "Ubuntu" > ALERT! /dev/mapper/Ubuntu-root does not exist! > Dropping to a shell! > > Busy Box v1.01 (Debian 1:1.01-4Ubuntu1) Built-in shell > (ash) > > Does anyone have any ideas on how to recover from > this? I'm not necessarily even interested in > recovering the machine to its former state. I've > installed ubuntu about 30 times now - 31 shouldn't be > any problem. But there are a few files on there that > I'd like to get off before I do. > > I booted using a FC4 Rescue CD to boot which > successfully mounted the logical volumes. I'm working > through how to mount an NFS share so I can copy off > what I want to save. > > I've followed the NFS tutorial at > http://nfs.sourceforge.net/nfs-howto/ but can't mount > the share. I get "connection refused". Trying to run > rpcinfo -p on the server also returns "connection > refused". > > exports > /media/hdc1/Elrond 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0(rw) > > hosts.allow > portmap: 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0 > > hosts.deny > portmap:ALL > > sudo exportsfs -av seems to return intelligible > results. > > mount -t nfs 192.168.1.17:/Elrond /mnt/sysimage/oshit > > returns "connection refused" > > In a different, but somewhat related question - since > it seems there is nothing wrong with the box or the > drive, would it be possible to resuscitate the > machine? Either roll back to before the botched Dapper > install, or continue the distro-upgrade from where it > left off? > > Answer both, or neither, or ignore as you see fit, > but..... OK, what am I doing wrong? Total newbie here, > so use small words and short sentences. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET Tue Mar 21 14:58:19 2006 From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:58:19 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Day-light savings time 2007 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <442068EB.7090902@Comcast.NET> Jeremy Portzer wrote: > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Rajiv Gunja wrote:> > >>Has anyone or your company/institute, taken/started any action against the >>day-light savings time of 2007? > > > What do you mean by "action against" ? What specifically would you be > expecting to do? Action to abort the time change. Whatever possible benefits come out of doing this will be outweighed from all the effort spent changing EVERY computer in the known universe. This is Y2K again, but totally unnecessary. At least they had the sense to go back to the way it used to be in 1976. Hmmmm, a beleagued Republican President in his last two years in both cases. Coincidence or Conspiracy? JIM From jason.c.miller at gmail.com Wed Mar 22 19:09:34 2006 From: jason.c.miller at gmail.com (Jason C. Miller) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:09:34 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Replacement for Mplayer Message-ID: <4421F54E.9000802@gmail.com> What would this group recommend as a replacement for Mplayer (preferably something with the same breadth-of-function)? The things I've looked at on the web are nice, but not as robust. -jason From dododge at dododge.net Wed Mar 22 20:16:44 2006 From: dododge at dododge.net (Dave Dodge) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:16:44 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Replacement for Mplayer In-Reply-To: <4421F54E.9000802@gmail.com> References: <4421F54E.9000802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060323021644.GA20481@basmati> On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 08:09:34PM -0500, Jason C. Miller wrote: > What would this group recommend as a replacement for Mplayer (preferably Xine is the obvious alternative. It's what I normally use for interactive playback of video files and DVDs. There's also VLC, gstreamer and others, but I don't know much about them. > something with the same breadth-of-function)? It may depend on what you were doing with it. If you're used to using mplayer and mencoder to capture and process video data rather than simply play it back, I don't know if there's anything else as flexible and controllable. -Dave Dodge From strredwolf at gmail.com Wed Mar 22 20:15:12 2006 From: strredwolf at gmail.com (Kelly Price) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:15:12 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Replacement for Mplayer In-Reply-To: <4421F54E.9000802@gmail.com> References: <4421F54E.9000802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ff566830603221815k1450a283id2de1ed96db5ff0b@mail.gmail.com> On 3/22/06, Jason C. Miller wrote: > What would this group recommend as a replacement for Mplayer (preferably > something with the same breadth-of-function)? > The things I've looked at on the web are nice, but not as robust. Replacement for CVS Mplayer? What are you trying to do? I can see Xine and Transcode together being a good replacement, but not as robust as Mplayer. > > > > -jason > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- Kelly "STrRedWolf" Price http://strredwolf.furrynet.com From william.kelly.jr at gmail.com Wed Mar 22 20:36:25 2006 From: william.kelly.jr at gmail.com (william kelly) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:36:25 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Replacement for Mplayer In-Reply-To: <4421F54E.9000802@gmail.com> References: <4421F54E.9000802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1ad34df30603221836t6396bf3bv44ab11d00547dcfb@mail.gmail.com> VLC vlc is the best for playing just about anything. plus you can stream and multicast. On 3/22/06, Jason C. Miller wrote: > > What would this group recommend as a replacement for Mplayer (preferably > something with the same breadth-of-function)? > The things I've looked at on the web are nice, but not as robust. > > > > -jason > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- William Kelly Jr 443-414-4549 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060322/0051898a/attachment.html From jason.c.miller at gmail.com Thu Mar 23 08:04:45 2006 From: jason.c.miller at gmail.com (Jason C. Miller) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:04:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] Replacement for Mplayer In-Reply-To: <1ad34df30603221836t6396bf3bv44ab11d00547dcfb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the great recommendations everyone! I'm one of the jokers who downloaded and installed FC5 the first day it was released. I'm currently doing the whole trial-by-fire thing that one has to go through to install a new OS AND get all of his legacy apps and drivers working. Everything from fenagling VMWare kernel object code, compiling ATI Radeon drivers that don't support the latest Xorg, installing older versions of shared libraries without conflicting with the new, etc etc. I love mplayer with a passion but, unfortunately, its maintenance cycle is tad broad (it still does a check for gcc 2.95 when you try to compile source - I can easily get around that but it still won't compile). Of course, I add the RPMs that I used with FC4 and it STILL has issues. This is one of those things where I was tired after a long night of compiling and jury-rigging and just wanted to watch a video. The fun continues. :) On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, william kelly wrote: > VLC > > > vlc is the best for playing just about anything. plus you can stream and > multicast. > > On 3/22/06, Jason C. Miller wrote: > > > > What would this group recommend as a replacement for Mplayer (preferably > > something with the same breadth-of-function)? > > The things I've looked at on the web are nice, but not as robust. > > > > > > > > -jason > > _______________________________________________ > > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > > Change your list subscription options: > > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > -- > William Kelly Jr > 443-414-4549 > -- From clinton at unknownlamer.org Thu Mar 23 12:43:45 2006 From: clinton at unknownlamer.org (Clinton Ebadi) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:43:45 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Replacement for Mplayer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1143139425.4511.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 09:04 -0500, Jason C. Miller wrote: > I love mplayer with a passion but, unfortunately, its maintenance cycle is > tad broad (it still does a check for gcc 2.95 when you try to compile > source - I can easily get around that but it still won't compile). Of > course, I add the RPMs that I used with FC4 and it STILL has issues. No, it checks for 2.96 because that was broken. It also checks for GCC 4 because it tends to produce broken code when optimizing still (e.. MPlayer/libavcodec with -O3 and -march=athlon-mp produces illegal instructions all over the place). You just need to install GCC 3.4 to build MPlayer. Nothing you find will have all of the features of MPlayer (right now). -- http://unknownlamer.org AIM:unknownlamer IRC:unknown_lamer at fnode#tpu Jabber:clinton at hcoop.net I use Free Software because I value freedom over features. 443E 4F1A E213 7C54 A306 E328 7601 A1F0 F403 574B -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060323/d06c6d22/attachment.bin From Mark.Allbritten at grace.com Thu Mar 23 14:24:49 2006 From: Mark.Allbritten at grace.com (Allbritten, Mark) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:24:49 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Server Monitoring Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Is anyone using anything like orca ( http://www.orcaware.com/orca/)? I use gkrellm in day to day practice, but I want something with historical abilities. Also, gkrellm is good for one server that you are actively watching but not very good for 10.. Thanks, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060323/7013579d/attachment.html From jason at dixongroup.net Thu Mar 23 14:29:04 2006 From: jason at dixongroup.net (Jason Dixon) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:29:04 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] Server Monitoring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0DF91CAE-2660-4825-80C6-5120ACE4DED2@dixongroup.net> On Mar 23, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Allbritten, Mark wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Is anyone using anything like orca ( http://www.orcaware.com/ > orca/)? I use gkrellm in day to day practice, but I want something > with historical abilities. Also, gkrellm is good for one server > that you are actively watching but not very good for 10.. I use symon (http://www.xs4all.nl/~wpd/symon/) for my servers and network. I might give Orca a try, it looks nice too. Thanks, -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net From calug at mpflaum.com Thu Mar 23 17:28:47 2006 From: calug at mpflaum.com (Mark Pflaum) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:28:47 -0500 Subject: [CALUG] SUSE Bashrc Message-ID: <44232F2E.6B6A6BE4@mpflaum.com> Loaded Suse 10.0. Would like to customize the term window prompt, but can't find .bashrc in /root.. Is there another file? Same with .bash_profile - can't find it in /root. From brownclan at gmail.com Fri Mar 24 10:49:11 2006 From: brownclan at gmail.com (Hugh Brown) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:49:11 -0600 Subject: [CALUG] SUSE Bashrc In-Reply-To: <44232F2E.6B6A6BE4@mpflaum.com> References: <44232F2E.6B6A6BE4@mpflaum.com> Message-ID: <4ac4077d0603240849w12fb951bk5beda6fb5abe71b8@mail.gmail.com> First check that bash is the shell for root. Then just create one. Alternatively, there is probably a copy of both those files in /etc/skel I'd check to make sure that they (/etc/skel/.bash*) behave appropriately for a root user. Hugh On 3/23/06, Mark Pflaum wrote: > > Loaded Suse 10.0. > Would like to customize the term window prompt, > but can't find .bashrc in /root.. > Is there another file? > Same with .bash_profile - can't find it in /root. > > _______________________________________________ > Columbia, Maryland Linux User's Group (CALUG) mailing list > CALUG Website: http://www.calug.com > Email postings to: lug at calug.com > Change your list subscription options: > http://calug.com/mailman/listinfo/lug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://calug.com/pipermail/lug/attachments/20060324/288d777a/attachment.html From rmain at polaris.umuc.edu Sun Mar 26 12:15:59 2006 From: rmain at polaris.umuc.edu (Russ) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:15:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [CALUG] Adelphia Message-ID: Hello, Thanks again for the input. I took the 50 dollar WRT54G back to Best Buy, and bought a 60 dollar WRT54GL from newegg. I got the router Friday. I hooked up the Adelphia modem(RCA 425), and it wasn't a turnkey experience. The modem wont pick up their signal, so they are sending a tech out this week to boost my signal(-4.5db). SNR was 36.7db. They will be here sometime between Sunday and Saturday between the hours of 1am and 11pm. Russ M